DESIGNING FREEDOM BEYOND BORDERS AND LIMITS

Skillionaires Podcast Episode 18

Michelle Maree

[Angela Thomas]

Welcome to another episode of Skillunaire, the podcast where stories stick and strategies scale. And today we're going to talk about skills, mindset, and the journey behind extraordinary success. Today's guest is someone who redefines freedom actually on her own terms.

And she's an entrepreneur. She's a digital nomad and the founder of The Nomade Escape. Michelle Marie helps people to design life and business that supports freedom, location, independency, and also personal growth.

Without sugarcoating the challenges that are behind it and come with it, in this episode, we'll talk about her beginnings, hard moments, and the point where she thinks everything could have been scaled or can be scaled. So very warm welcome to our episode, Michelle. Oh, thank you so much.

[Michelle Maree]

It was lovely. It was lovely. You did great homework.

[Angela Thomas]

Like, I love it. It's a great introduction. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for recognizing that. Michelle.

Yeah, I saw you on stage when we met the first time on the Gladiator Summit. Yeah, that was a really big moment where you were on stage and I was fascinated by your story. And I wanted to actually know in the first question that I have, where did it all started?

And how did you come to realize that I cannot have a life that is, as a lot of people think, ordinary, I would say, but in your terms, independent? Let me know.

[Michelle Maree]

Thank you for asking that question. And it's a very important question, I think, for anyone who creates a business beyond themselves. When I look back on my journey, I, you know, the easy answer is to give like, hey, I, you know, was struggling with a certain challenge myself, and it created business around it.

But actually, with me, it goes way deeper. And I realized that only in the last three years that my bigger why is really connected to my my life story. I grew up in the Netherlands, next to Germany, Germany, like close to you, actually.

And I grew up in a quite dysfunctional family. My parents had a lot of issues and challenges to manage their own lives. And I was observing at a very young age already, like, wow, they are struggling so much with money, they're struggling so much with a poverty mindset, they're dependent on the government.

They had no freedom, and they always were victimizing themselves. It's like, oh, look at the neighbors, they have that. And these people do have money.

And look at us, we have nothing. So at a young age, I got a very bad relationship with money. And the only thing I knew, and I think the first realization I got was 10 years old, we were celebrating Carnival, which you also do in Germany.

We do that on the border of the Netherlands. And personally, I never liked it. I don't like the music.

I like the dressing up with the music. And I can remember that I looked around me at 10 years old, I was dressed up as a cat actually at that point. And I came from a very bad night at home where my father had a very, let's say, an episode of like his mental breakdowns.

And then he took me and my family out of the bed in the middle of the night. And it's like, threatened, like the crazy things either way, like to not go in details. So I had very bad sleep as a child.

And then I was celebrating Carnival. And then I realized I was looking around me and I was thinking about where I'm from. I'm like, when I'm old enough, I need to get out here.

I didn't like the culture where I grew up, like in the Netherlands in the south. I didn't like the music. And I felt like I don't belong here.

I belong into the world, the more exotic or tropical or having experiences and adventures. And that life already at a very young age felt very off for me. I didn't feel connected to where I grew up.

Plus, in my environment, everyone was victimizing themselves. And I was already like, hey, this is not how life should be. So growing a little bit older, my parents divorced at the end.

[Angela Thomas]

Let me dive shortly in. I wanted to know, coming to this realization, because I find so much parallels in my realization. And I wanted to match on how old were you when you have realized that?

Because in my childhood, I constantly felt not belong to the place that I grew up in. And I constantly waited for the bus to go out in the world. I was sitting on the bus station, literally all my childhood.

[Michelle Maree]

Yes, no, I had exactly the same. It's interesting that you say that. I think the first time I really realized it, maybe some awareness, maybe at six years old, or five years old, because I started watching TV shows.

We had a TV show, for example, Skippy the Bush Kangaroo. And it was about Australia. It was about kangaroos and koalas.

And I'm like, wow, like, I want to see that. I want to experience that. I want to see the world.

I was watching National Geographic. I want to go into the Amazon and have adventures. And I felt like, yeah, that is not in the Netherlands.

So, you know, like, from a environmental, physical perspective, like, I don't belong here. The people around me. Wow.

[Angela Thomas]

Yeah, that is only speaking for you to be so awake. And not a lot of people have that. And having such an environment of victimizing parenthood or other circumstances, to be honest enough and strong enough to stick to that little gut feeling.

And a lot of people I find, they overwrite this gut feeling, because they feel so much out of place, often like the fly in the milk. And then they just be conditioned by the behavior of the environment. And then as you were growing older, then what happened?

Where did you realize, let me get out of here?

[Michelle Maree]

Well, I had no choice. Because when I grew older, when I was 14 years old, I ended up in the streets. And I became homeless, because my parents were not able to take care of me anymore.

So I ended up in the streets. I moved place to place to friends, couches and all these things. I ended up sleeping a few nights literally in the streets.

And of course, like in the Netherlands, you know, you have good facilities. So let's say the youth care and the social workers, they pick me up. And I grew up there in a homeless shelter for children between 14 and 23 years old, so youngsters.

[Angela Thomas]

I get goosebumps. And that's not because I'm cold.

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah. So me being in that environment, and looking around me, because I realized like, okay, I'm now living in a home with other kids who have no support, no backup, no parents. And most likely they're going to end up like, excuse my French shit.

You know, they, I saw many girls around me 15, 16, becoming pregnant. Everyone's like on drugs or dealing drugs. I was myself like a rebel.

I was like always high, always smoking weed. I was like a hip hop girl listening to Tupac and Biggie. You know, I could resonate with that music, because I grew up in a tough situation.

But then I realized like, okay, this is not where I want to end up. I don't want to be pregnant at 16. I don't want to end up, you know, like being stuck in this town and be dependent on the government, on my, on my, you know, like payout moment.

And then, you know, I have 40 euros a month left over to do some groceries at the Aldi or so, or Lidl. Like hell no. And I did not know what was possible in life.

I only knew that I didn't want this. This was the only thing.

[Angela Thomas]

I congratulate you. And I have so much respect for you as a child, a teenager, being switched on with a grip, such a determined mindset to go out, not knowing. Yeah.

Not knowing for what, but just knowing that that place that you're in is not the place you want to stay in.

[Michelle Maree]

Wow. Exactly. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Like, I mean, if you don't have access to that information, you know, like I didn't know there were personal development books.

I didn't know you could work abroad. I didn't know that you could create a business like what I have today. So it was very limited.

So the only way for me was okay to study, get a good job, you know, like have that life because I was like, okay, I can grow. But when, once I did that at the end of like, wow, this is very limiting. And then I looked for alternate alternative ways and we will get there.

But I think that's like when you feel within that something is missing or something is off, like your body and your gut always tells you what you need. And it's the child within you, let's say the inner child, you know, like the little girl that was six years old, like, oh my God, there's so much more in the world. She was talking through me throughout all these periods still today, you know, like every, I'm naturally when I wake up in the morning, I wake up.

I don't want to even, but I wake up every day at 536 automatically. I haven't set an alarm for years. And I just, I wake up like a SpongeBob.

I'm like, okay, I'm ready. Let's explore the world. Let's build things, you know, let's build business.

Let's, you know, like help people. Let's, let's do cool stuff. So I always had that natural excitement in me.

So I was like, okay, let's explore what we can do. I think like my journey took quite long because if I would have access to that information earlier, I would have been more successful earlier, but it made me who I am today. And I'm very grateful for the journey.

Yes.

[Angela Thomas]

And with your journey, you obviously can help today a lot of others because you knew the way, you learned how it is, and you can speak from a point of experience. And with people that have experienced something like that, others following much more easier, isn't it? Yeah.

So let me ask you something. When you had then experienced to get your elbows out and stand up for yourself and go your way, what was the first situation where you had actually said, Aha, I'm free out of this environment. And maybe yet, I'm not on this position where I can reach my end goal or where I reached my end goal or get some kind of the feeling.

Yeah, well, I made it somehow. What was the first business that you have done? Kind of, how did you create a cash flow in a young age like that for yourself?

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah, well, there's many different questions that you ask, like there were six at the same time. Like, let's say first the feeling of freedom. I always dreamt of going abroad.

So let's say before I had a business, I did, you know, study, I went to university, I studied social work, and education and psychology. And I had the dream to go abroad. So I moved to South America, to Suriname.

And me arriving there landing and I saw the Amazon and I saw this different culture, like, wow, I feel alive. Like, finally, I feel alive. So that was the first time I really felt the freedom.

Back then I had a partner or boyfriend then and he was like, Okay, come back after and I'm like, I'm not gonna go back. Hell no. And I wanted to go I had to still graduate, I had to go to, yeah, I had to graduate and I decided to go to Amsterdam, to the big city, right, the capital of the Netherlands.

And he's like, what are you going to do there? What kind of relationship is this? Like, I need to do this to go and explore and go to the big city.

So from that moment, I think I grabbed my more my independence and you know, more the opportunities I had moved to the big city and there I developed a school for these kids, the homeless kids. So our kids were in prison, actually, that's what I did. Like I created like a very unique educational concept.

And there I saw the business side of education. So instead of only I worked with the kids, I was in the class, I work with the parents. But I also was in the back end.

So I was on the funding side, I saw like the budget, so how you know, like governments deal with budget and like local institutions. Okay, I like this as well. And then I developed a whole methodology and how they work with the children there.

So that was, you know, that was the first time I really developed something, even though it was not my own business. I'm like, okay, I like it. I like creation.

I like to innovate new things.

[Angela Thomas]

You started to have the first feeling of exactly how it would be. You could actually think it on another level. Exactly.

Here you go. You had already back then your scaling skills switched on.

[Michelle Maree]

Exactly, exactly. And I did that. That was great.

And after two years, I realized like, I live in Amsterdam, this is going to be the standard life. And very soon I outgrew again, the people around me. So where I came from was limiting.

But now I was in Amsterdam, was great. But I developed myself very fast. I could have like, you know, become the director of the school and all these things.

And I'm like, okay, is this it? And get the house and get the standard life. And I felt I needed more.

So I decided to move back to South America. And there I did a lot of different things. And at the end, I became a director of an education for security and safety risk management training.

So again, it was not my company. But I became the CEO of that company at 26. And I had no clue what I was doing.

They offered me that because it was good with people and new education. And there I really started there, I learned to do business, because I was in charge of the revenue growth, basically. So I had to do business, I had to sell.

No clue, I had no understanding of it. But I thought, okay, let's, let's talk to people. And then I found out like, it's all relationships.

And how I was able to connect people there as well and make gap analysis of where they're standing now, what do they need? And how can we support you with that? So there, I grew the company massively.

And what during that period, I felt again, like, oh my god, I'm getting stuck in the standard rat race, like every two, three years. And then I, I went to the Amazon almost every weekend. So like, while I was like, dressed like this, as a director and the weekend is like, my Bob Marley on my flip flops, you know, nice beer and just going in a boat somewhere in the Amazon.

And there I started collecting wood, wood, wood, like literally wood. Okay, so you have an area in that in that country. It's a reservoir lake.

So it's a big area that they put on the water six years ago to generate electricity. So it's a big part of the Amazon. So all the wood that's in there, that sticks out of the water.

That's the most expensive and strongest hardwood in the world. And you were so striving along, collecting the wood diamonds. I mean, yeah, kind of.

I was like, oh, this is beautiful. So I started just collecting, collecting. And then suddenly I had a lot of these pieces of wood.

Yeah. And one day it's like, okay, why am I not doing something with it? So then I started creating some lamps and some, some, some things, basically some arts and furniture.

And then I created a brand, just like I went online and I was like, okay, a website where you can make funds. And it's called the Design by Nudu. So that was my first company.

Wow. My very, almost no one knew that. I rarely talk about that.

So I started making arts out of wood and driftwood and skulls even of, of cows. So the idea, the concept was like to bring back life to old materials that were forgotten. Instead of using IKEA, what can we use?

[Angela Thomas]

Yeah. Right. My grandfather always says the money lays on the street.

You just not have to know how to pick it up. It's true. And you just pick it up.

[Michelle Maree]

Exactly.

[Angela Thomas]

It's so good.

[Michelle Maree]

Exactly.

[Angela Thomas]

And you had so many times and opportunities to rehearsal actually. Yes. And I find it so fantastic.

Mumtaz, we say here in Arabic, that you have basically used all of this opportunities that has life pushed, life opportunities and you created and took every opportunity to create something out of it. I find this such a good skill. Thank you.

Thank you.

[Michelle Maree]

Thank you for the skill you there. Yeah. So I saw opportunities.

I started selling that and that was the first money I really made for myself. And I became very known in a very short amount of time, like all the oil company directors, the ministers, they were buying my work and I found out, oh, I'm actually really good in branding. And, you know, but then I noticed already, like within me, like I had the job, like as a director, serious corporate job, I was doing the arts and I love the arts, but I also love business.

And I loved, you know, and then I went to the, let's say to the art fair, the gallery. And you have, they called it like the first hour when the gallery opens, they call it for the elite people and then they could buy already what they wanted. But I came there on my Nikes, let's say, and then, and the people like, you can't do that.

Like I'm the artist. Like, of course I can do that. You can make money on your bare feet, right?

Yeah. So so I've, I noticed like, okay, I, I can be in the standard package of, of business making money. I love that, but I also want to be free.

So yeah, then I thought really well about my life at the end, like I was 29. And then I said, I want to travel the world. And then I went back to being that little girl who looked at all these documentaries about Australia was my big dream to go to Australia always.

And until 30 years old, you can get a working holiday visa. I'm not sure if you are aware of that. Like many people in Europe do that.

[Angela Thomas]

I heard about that. Never experienced it, but maybe I introduce it to my kids.

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah. Like I highly recommend it because you can just go there and get a job for one year. Right.

So you can make money while you travel. I had no digital skills yet. So it's like, okay, this is the only opportunity.

I told my partner, like, listen, I really want to do this. I need to do this for myself. And he's like, we have a great life here.

It's like, I know, like we had two cars, three cats, a nice house, all the whole thing. And like, I was pretty known on the live TV shows. I'm like, it's not it.

Like there's more. Right. And he didn't want to come with me.

And I'm like, I'm sorry, I have to go. So I left him and I backpack and a few thousand euros. I went to Australia, starting all over again as a waitress.

I started as a tour guide. I did all different type of jobs. And then after a while, I realized like, okay, I love this lifestyle.

I love the travel, exploring new places, going wherever I want to be. And I love making money. But it was limited because I was working as a waitress and that made some money.

Like you paid very well in Australia. So you could easily make like 10k or so, but then you travel for months or three months and it's gone. Like, okay, I don't want to have this cycle.

And then I thought like, okay, how can I make money while I travel? And I literally Googled how to make money online. I had no clue, literally.

And then I just saw different skills that you can develop like marketing or development. And I chose Facebook ads. It's just like I took Google, how can you make the fastest money?

And I found Facebook ads. I went on YouTube. And every morning from 10am to 2pm I was in the library studying.

And 2pm until 12 or so I worked as a waitress in a casino. And yeah, so I just started developing these skills. And then before I was ready, actually, I posted on Facebook groups in local Facebook groups in Australia.

Like, hey, guys, my name is Michelle. I'm a digital marketer. I'm developing my skills in Facebook ads and I'm looking for local business owners who want to increase their leads.

Who's interested? Now within 30 minutes at like 30 leads, of course, you know.

[Angela Thomas]

I have a podcast guest in the future. He has this as a marketing strategy. He actually, he actually invents Facebook groups in order to post stuff like that for his business.

Facebook groups is a good strategy by itself.

[Michelle Maree]

It's very good. It's very good. Now it's different because it's like less accessible unless you have your own.

I have my own as well, but I don't use it so much anymore. I've now different channels, but then it works really well. Yeah.

And yeah, I posted on Facebook groups. I got my first leads. I chose three companies and I provided my services.

It was for free. First to give them a good experience. The only thing I want is a testimonial because I had no clients.

And they love it. And they're like, we want to hire you. I'm like, okay.

So then suddenly, bam, I had three clients from zero to three clients. Okay, great. So for one, I did Facebook ads.

For one, I did web development. I developed like social media and digital skills and it was great. And then something interesting happens because I didn't know really the word digital nomads or remote work.

I just like, okay, I want to be free. So when I started making my first money, I was still a tax resident in the Netherlands. So I wanted to register myself as a freelancer basically.

And I'm like, okay, how can I do that? So I called the chamber of commerce in the Netherlands and I'm like, hey, I'm Michelle. This is what I'm doing.

I'm going to start making money. Can I register my business? And the lady's like, but what do you think?

I'm like, excuse me. Like, you need to come here physically. You need to sign.

I'm like, but I can't do that from here. Like, no, ma'am. Like, you need to be physically here.

And what do you think? That you can just travel. This is literally what she said.

That you can just travel the world and do all this stuff and make money like that. I'm like, yeah, why not? And she said, this is not how it works.

And she pissed me off. And I'm like, of course, this should be. But I didn't know how again, but it should be possible.

[Angela Thomas]

I'm always getting so much motivated if somebody tells me it's not possible. Exactly. I was like, let me find out.

Come back later. I'll show you it's possible.

[Michelle Maree]

Exactly. And then I got obsessed with alternate alternative business models. So I literally, you know, like Google is like, okay, how is it if you're a Dutch person and you are in Australia, I want to make money.

And then I found out like, okay, there is something like the e-residency in Estonia. And then I found out like the word digital nomad and all these things. And kind of, I was a digital nomad before that was interesting because I started with working online and I started feeling a little bit disconnected.

And everyone around me in Australia where I was, they were mainly backpackers and all the people who worked in a casino also backpacker. But I was very ambitious. I was reading a little bit books about money already and getting interested in this topic.

No one around me was. So I posted in another Facebook group like, hi guys, my name is Michelle and I'm an ambitious solo traveler. That's how I call myself.

I didn't know. So four people showed up. It was my first ever like thing at my house.

She's drinking coffee and then we grab the laptops. Shall we work together? So I didn't know about this world.

And then when I got into like alternative business models and like, how can you register? Then I found the word digital nomad. I'm like, oh, maybe, maybe that's me.

Maybe I want to be that because this is now, how long ago? Like eight years ago, I'm talking about. So it was not so known, I think, as now like commercialized.

And then I googled digital nomad where they hang out, Bali. Bali, yes, of course. And then it was great.

So I went to Bali, of course. I had my, I went, I moved into an entrepreneur villa. It was from Draper startup house.

Tim Draper is the biggest VC in Silicon Valley. So that was really cool actually. And about other entrepreneurs.

And it was a really cool concept. And our meetups and stuff. But yet there were not moments that you really sit together, for example, with a group like, okay, what are you building?

What are you working on? Let's say you have your podcast. And what are you stuck with?

I just say something, the distribution or, you know, your operations team. How can we help each other? I miss that.

[Angela Thomas]

So you didn't have no interaction, no reflection?

[Michelle Maree]

No, because you're doing it all alone, right? And I miss that so much. And I love that you can wake me up in the middle of the night, like, Michelle, at 3am, I have an idea.

Like, fuck, yeah, let's grab a whiteboard. Let's go. Right.

I love that. So and I didn't, I couldn't really do that with anyone. So basically, I started creating meetups and bringing these people together.

Right.

[Angela Thomas]

Meetups like in the home with those four people. You just try to.

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah, but then with groups in Bali, basically.

[Angela Thomas]

And first you did this for yourself, basically, to get reflection.

[Michelle Maree]

Exactly. And exactly, exactly. And before that was interesting, because also in Australia, I had another job, I was a kind of like a tour guide.

And there were many backpackers on it. The concept was really cool. But I didn't like the people that much.

Because they were not like ambitious people. They were like, oh, drinking, partying and all these things. Right.

So I was like, okay, what if I can do this concept, the traveling, but then with people like myself. And then, then my business partner that I started the business with originally, he was one of my colleagues on these trips. And then we sat together like, okay, why don't we create something for people like ourselves?

And like, I'm good in developing, like trainings and learning environments. I'll create a program.

[Angela Thomas]

Right.

[Michelle Maree]

So we combine travel with, with mastermind and with learning. So we did like the skill, you know, we did skill, skillshare mapping. So I developed a whole methodology and program that in the shortest amount of time, people can get to know each other on the deepest level, personally and professionally, and can start doing business together and support each other.

[Angela Thomas]

That is always the point of where I'm asking, what was the point that you find? Okay, here, I have the leverage point here. Exactly.

Yeah, I can scale. Yeah. Here, again, I can detach time from factor money and labor.

Yes. How did it happen? And how did you come to know?

Okay, this is the point of, I can leverage.

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah. Well, that was not the point of leverage really yet. It was the early beginning, I would say.

But I realized that, for example, with digital marketing, I had a one, one client, I could serve one client. But now I could serve groups. So instead of charging one person 2000 euros, I can do 10.

[Angela Thomas]

Exactly. Detach labor from factor money and time.

[Michelle Maree]

In that sense. Yeah. So it's like, okay, interesting.

So now we can do groups. But if we can do multiple groups, right? So then it became easier.

So yeah, and that wasn't, it was the pre pandemic. So we did like road trips, and you know, like these meetups and all these things. But I didn't have a digital business yet.

I didn't have the digital component, which I have right now. And that came after the pandemic. But yeah, realizing that you can do group work, that's just like, was really important.

And then at a later point, like, okay, what if we bring these people together online, because not everyone can travel, we get a lot of traction, like, oh, I want to be part of entrepreneurial community. But I cannot go now to Dubai, for example, can I join online. So now we created like a space for people to join online.

And at the end, they join also our events.

[Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah.

[Angela Thomas]

Tell us a little bit more about your program. You have basically a space where digital nomads can be an entrepreneurial mindset, yes, kind of environment.

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah.

[Angela Thomas]

Learn from all of your skills and others, maybe? Yeah. Because Exactly.

And how long is this? Where we can find it? What somebody needs to bring in?

Yeah. And maybe somebody who wants to become a digital nomad? Yeah.

Can he also be a part of it? Or do you have to be already a digital nomad? Yeah.

[Michelle Maree]

To be part of it? It's actually interesting, because it's not only for digital nomads. We started like that.

But we got actually, I think that 70% of the people who join us is not really a digital nomad. They are entrepreneurs, they're location independent. They're digital.

But they're not personally digital nomads. So they go away for a few times a year. And they love it that I go to Dubai or I go to Bali or I go next week to the Philippines or Vietnam.

They're like, okay, this is a great opportunity. I'm at home working from home. But now I can join this group who is going there.

So actually, not so many digital nomads. And I'm also shifting away from the digital nomad principle because we're not really teaching anyone how to become a digital nomad. We never spoke about the topic digital nomadism.

But we talk about the skills, like we always say, it's interesting how you open, like grow your skills, network and business. That is our, while you're in a really cool environment and different space and all these things. So now we're shifting also, like we're in a rebranding, we have like my signature event every year in Madeira Island, where Darius was a speaker, Ken Honda was a speaker.

We're like, pretty like well known people speaking there. It was always Nomad Island Fest and we're shifting now, shifting more towards founders. So now it's a Founders Island Fest.

I'm really focusing on founders, connectors, community builders, because I really believe in when, you know, like when you build a business beyond yourself, you can have a lot of impact. So it's not only me being a service provider, okay, build a website or I'm a coach for one on one. But when we build a brand and a movement, we can impact many people together.

And if you bring them all together, it just multiplies.

[Angela Thomas]

That's what impresses me the most about your work. You are not only looking for how much I can scale my revenue, but how much I can scale the impact. Yes, exactly.

That is something that really fascinated me when I heard you about your work and being on stage and at this digital Nomad Festival. When is it?

[Michelle Maree]

At the fourth until the 10th of December.

[Angela Thomas]

And do you have already, the name changed for it, as you say?

[Michelle Maree]

Founders Island Fest.

[Angela Thomas]

Founders Island Fest. I need to mark this in my calendar.

[Michelle Maree]

Yes, you're very welcome. You can do podcasts there with people. It will be great.

[Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Michelle Maree]

And also like in two months, we will be in Vietnam. There's going to be a founders retreat as well. Smaller group, more intimate setting.

Then I will go to Japan, Ken Honda, speak at his event. And then we do also like events and retreats for corporates. So I work with like remote individuals and remote teams.

So the last event I did was like for 200 people. They flew in from the US, New Zealand, Australia, all to Portugal. And I designed the whole program for them.

I'm the host and I fly in my team and we designed the whole experience.

[Angela Thomas]

Wow.

[Michelle Maree]

Yeah. Very nice.

[Angela Thomas]

Look at you. I'm so proud to have you here.

[Michelle Maree]

Thank you.

[Angela Thomas]

I wanted to ask you something very controversial. Yeah. And I'm starting with a quote.

Okay. Who wants to go fast goes alone. This was an incredible interview with Michelle Marie.

And I'm very happy to present you the next week, the following week, the second part. You should stay tuned and await all of the insightful topics that Michelle talks with me in the second part of the interview. I'm so glad that we could pick her brain.