THE DUBAI BUSINESS LABYRINTH WITH DR. HEIKE LIEB-WILSON (PART 2)

Skillionaires Podcast

Episode Dr. Angela Thomas3

Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson – Part Dr. Angela Thomas

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

I came to Dubai as a single mom, as you know, with my two kids and it was a hell of a journey.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

After all, she nowadays, after staying with me here for one full year, a little longer even, she says nowadays that she has two homes.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

I'm not an ordinary mom, so I always told the kids, I gave them a lot of liberty. However, the most priority or that priority was always good grades. My advice to people is always like, don't dwell on the why, but then focus on how to solve it, because that's what life wants you to learn.

And today, I think life is giving you things or throwing you some things along your life, you know, because for something you have to learn and to prepare for something better.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

How do you evaluate if something is good or not so good?

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

So usually, they find me through referrals or they find me through my website or through LinkedIn. I think the biggest source or the most clients I get through referral, people have worked with me and have heard of me or LinkedIn, to be very honest. And then usually, I ask them to give me a short company profile.

I always look, what do they do with their home market? Because that's, and also the nature, like for example, linen, I had a company, they do linen, they work a lot with linen, like linen bedding and whatever. And they assume that linen work will work here very well.

But because we are very clean and very like, it needs to be like super luxurious. Often linen, it's hard to sell. So the potential is rather limited.

So when they send me their company profile, I do a very short, brief evaluation. And then I give them a first indication back what I think is the potential of the market. And then from there, the conversation starts.

So that's my pre-work I have to do, you know, because otherwise, I can't say if it's working or not working. Some things like for example lingerie or so, you know, I had one swimwear brand from Austria. But the swimwear was more like a combination between lingerie and swimwear.

So like it was laces, but then the lining was like kind of a nude. So I told her, you know, if you go in a public swimming pool, like even in a five star hotel, and it looks like you're half nude, they will not allow you to wear it, to be very honest. And it doesn't fit into the culture.

And then there is where I give very early feedback. And then in that case, actually, they didn't listen. They spent a lot of money and then they wrapped it up after like three quarters of a year and like lost a lot of money and they just didn't do it.

But I said to her, it's not going to work. It's not the right product for this market. Then also like, for example, many want to have like food coming in.

And then the challenge is not the registration, but often it's the distribution. You know, and also if you go into a distribution, you know, how much intake margin do you need to give the distributor? Because then also the distributor wants to earn some money and the retailer wants to earn some money.

So the brand's margin becomes very small unless they deal with a high price ticket product or high volume. And that's where, again, very early I can give them indications, you know, and can see the readiness. If they are their margin they have, it would allow them to expand into the market or not, you know, and otherwise.

But there's also other ways. For example, I offer the service that they can trade under my trade license to test the market, you know, so because I have a general trade license. So then I can do the listing for them against a small fee.

And I'm very transparent. They can see how does the market respond and so on and so forth. So I'm not the distributor per se, but I can help them open doors and whatever so they can get a feeling of the market.

So that's another service I can offer. Very good.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Not to set up the whole environment, but to have like kind of a trial period on actually making a good decision, whether it's a sustainable business.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

So we can do pop-up stores, I can do online listing, and we trade under my trade license and they get full transparency for that. And then if they can see, okay, we have like 100,000, 500,000 euros turnover, then I help them to transition into their own company. So I help them and advise them with obviously also resources to what kind of business they can set up.

And then we transition the brand from me to their own company. So it's like full, like 360 degree service. It depends what they want.

So I offer all the options. And I think there is nobody in the market really who does that. You know, you have lots of consultants, but they don't offer that they can trade on their own trade license.

So that's what, which is a little bit also my USP.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very good. What is the most awkward product that you ever was contacted with? Product or they wanted to trade with you or wanted the consultancy?

What is the most...

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Awkward, which I get a lot is like financial services. Which they want me to give like lead generations and whatever from like cryptocurrency and whatever. I totally step away from that.

I don't even, I don't want to even want to be associated because I don't want to go to my network. Because, you know, my reputation here, I think it's again something, you know, you know better than I do. I think here in the region, more than anywhere in the world, your business is based on relationship.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

It is very much so. And you are in the desert and you need a lot of more water to send out your entrepreneurial caravan. And you cannot do this by yourself.

And if you do not network and if you do not foster your network, it's, and you do this, you do this very good.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

But it's a relationship you build, you know, and it's like now anything I need, I can call people vice versa. So that's where it's coming from, you know, that we all support each other in here. And it comes also again with the two years.

So most of my network doesn't, like they're very conscious of working with people or companies, if they're not referrals, which are younger than two years. So this is where the strength as well comes from. You know, if I come and I say, look, I really recommend this person or this company, you would trust me because based on our trust we have built and not based on the company.

So I think that's so has so much weight, much more weight than anywhere else, you know, because you have a lot of crooks as well. Let's be honest. You have a lot of new people coming, they tell you they can do the world, but then in reality, they take your money and they run away.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

And I find this in the market, something also very unique that people who are longer here take much more longer to make business with you because of this. Correct. And you have to have a lot of more water to send out of your caravan.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Or you have someone who refers you.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Would you not say that that's a difference? Because it's half of the rent, but still it is not full. If you get a referral, yeah, but still people are very hesitating.

If you say, how long are you here? You answer one year or even less. Then it's really rare that they make really big business with you.

Maybe some small things to test, but it is something that you have to face and to understand here in Dubai that because of it is a transition market and the country where people are, maybe have it as a step towards a new era or a new country per se. And that's the outcome of it. But coming back to the question, what was your awkward product that you had?

I don't have really. No condoms?

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Funny enough, never. No, this is why I say only financial services.

That's the only people ask me to help, you know, which I, but anything else, even, you know, I work with sensor company, you know, Janitza, I told you the energy efficiency sensors I've been working with. I've been working with hydrogen, you know, I've been working with melt blown. So I'm also in different industries, you know, so it's not just retail and fashion and food and whatever.

So there is, as long as I know it's a good product. And that's for me relevant. So this is why coming back again, I always look what I do in their home markets.

If they're not strong in their home markets, it doesn't work here. So they have to build up their home market, their strengths there before they come here. And that's the, there is nothing awkward.

You know, I literally, it's like I had one day do like this screen protectors, but then there were not very serious people either. You know, they come from, they're successful in Germany and they wanted to hear, they wanted all my resources and then not pay for it, you know, and to open the doors and then making business behind my back. You very quickly understand that.

And then you step back and then I'm done. And there's also no return. There's no return.

Yeah.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

No business with an ex-client when it's coming out like that.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Because it's trust. Yeah, it is. And it's trust and it's also what you have built up.

It's your capital.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

And you harm with this yourself in the end, if you still go for it. But you mentioned you are in different industries, not only retail, retail. So then if you don't have an awkward product, what is the most wow product for you when you say, OK, this is a product I really wanted to work here.

This is a product I really have fun myself with, to bring it to the Middle East. What do you have that?

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

What I would love to do, which I have tried to do, which was not successful, is, you know, in Germany, we have Müller and DM, like these kind of drug stores, you know, where you can buy like the boots in the UK. They're not here. That concept doesn't exist.

I understand why. Why? Tell us.

Because, coming back to the ingredients. Because many of the ingredients in those products are like, you know, for example, let's use Biotin. Often they have like, let's say Dr. Angela Thomas,650 micrograms in the formula.

But the maximum, maximum is Dr. Angela Thomas,500. So they would need to change their formula just for this market. And there's many, many products.

And you know, every single product needs to be registered. So the process to get all those products registered, it takes a lot of time. And then many of them, you will not even get approved.

So that's why you find pharmacies are very strong here. Look at all these big pharmacies, as well as supermarkets, you know, because we're so strict and regulated. Vice versa.

Also, when you look at the positive side, any product you buy here, you know, it's safe. Because I know when I did my collagen and the gummy bears, for every single product, you need laboratory testing, third party laboratory testing. They check the formula, all the ingredients, all the claims.

They're like super, super strict for any product going to be registered here. So that's, it's actually safe to buy product here, you know. So for that reason, but it's like, you know, I would love to help DiEM and whatever, but they would need time and money.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah. I had one time an entrepreneur who says to me, can you please open up a DiEM in Dubai? I give you 1 million.

I was like, which currency? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which currency?

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

No, but DiEM doesn't want to. I contacted Müller. I contacted DiEM.

They're not interested to expand.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

I even, as I love Fisherman's Friend, I contacted Fisherman's Friend. Why are you not here? Where can I get you?

And it's like, they don't just, they don't plan it. Yeah. They're not interested.

No. I don't know the exact reasons, if it's changing formulas or packaging or whatsoever. But yeah, we also have to accept this.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

I have another good example. Rittersport, for example. I tried to work with Rittersport here, you know, but the melting point of the chocolate needs to be very different here.

And because they only produce outside of the UAE, if there's like a very slight difference in the temperature, immediately the chocolate gets white and spoiled. So they tried it before and some of the deliveries, they had to be destroyed because they, you know, the heat in the summer. In the minute, there's like one small decision.

If there's one, if there's one, It's spoiled.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

If there's one door open on any kind of the delivery change.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Because I think Rittersport would work amazing.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

There's a lot of German products I would love here. Nimm zwei, and you're on for, you know, Fisherman's Friend. It's not German.

I know, I know, I know. But yeah. But so I'm like, you know, there's many, many brands I would love to be, like May Body Wears, you know, it's a really nice brand.

And like the amazing European brands.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

They would even be so helpful here. Very successful.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

They're going to be very successful here. So I think there's many international brands who have a huge potential here. I think still companies are worried about the barriers of entry.

But that's where I come in.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Well, I can help to really bring down the barriers of entry because I'm very clear. I'm very open, very transparent. I can give all the like the intel they need to make a educated decision.

If or if not, that's the right market. But I definitely believe it is a huge market.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

I'm going to make sure that we're going to put everything in the show notes that people get in contact with you to bring even more products here that we love or you love. And then we get in contact with everybody can have it easy to get in contact with you. Heike, I wanted to know, where do you see in the next five years?

Myself? Yes.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Here. I love it here. And, you know, I'm I just turned 57 last January.

And so I'm like, As I am not looking like 5.0, you also don't look like 5.7. No, but I think for the next 10 years, I still have a lot in my mind. You know, I just, you know, that's the beauty. I do what I love and I love what I do.

So I every day I don't see as work. It's really my passion. I love it so much.

And so I there is so much more I want to do. I want to I want to grow. I want to expand.

I want to help brands. And I just, you know, it's like I don't know what I would do just sitting at home. You know, I would not.

It inspires me to use my brain. It inspires me to help companies. I have at the moment a really amazing client, you know, and I've been working with him like for three months now.

And the impact I have made is like on the bottom line. You literally like numbers can show. It makes me so proud.

You know, it is so satisfaction, you know, and and that's what is driving me. That's the fuel for my engine to keep me going every single day. So I just really, really love what I do.

And people like you, you know, working together. No, I would love to have more projects with you already. We like have so many collaborations.

But imagine we would open together DM market and Jane.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Get yourself seatbelts on. Let's rock and roll. Yeah.

Heike, I wanted to ask you something as I'm much into spirituality. I know that you have entered into this vibrations a little bit more often. I remember this one week that I initially mentioned that we met so often.

I told you also, hey, Heike, I'm a theta healer. I also do theta healing. I was like, OK, OK.

I know that is existing, but I don't believe in this. It was like kind of you had kind of a barrier. But then somehow it changed.

And I know we was at this one event, Mindvalley. It was a lot about energy. And tell us a little bit your new viewings about that.

Your new opinion about what has maybe changed in terms of energy, in terms of spirituality within you. Because I think also it is something that happens to moms that have outworked themselves much because they don't look inside. They look so much outside.

And once you are on that place of your life where you have an empty nest, you frame things different. I only can say this happens to me on the time when I left Germany. That was much my shift a little bit before, but much I developed as much in this time area.

But I would like to know when you had another point of view or angle to look at it.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

So I think I had initial change of mind when I was 40, where I neglected a lot of gut feeling and my brain was dominating my decisions. And I didn't listen into energy, which brought me in lots of trouble in some sort of way, mainly related to business. And I think that was the realization that I have to listen more to my gut feeling, which brought me back to the gut feeling.

Now, you're right. Imagine working with my job with a paragroup, having so many hours every single day. It was just not manageable.

I left in the morning at 7 o'clock and I came home in the evening by 8, 9 o'clock. So you just manage your life. There's no time for nothing at the end of the day.

And then having COVID, which brought a lot of calmness again back into my life. And especially Mindvalley, you know, is about speaking about, you know, believing in the universe and manifestation, you know, was brought closer in that period. But I think sometimes it comes to your life because you don't know anymore where to go, and you seek help.

And it's not medical help from doctors, but it's like for your overall well-being. And I think that has, yes, there was space or room, time for that. And that's where I have opened up, you know.

And obviously, yeah, you were also part of it because you introduced me as well to that opportunity to work there because we actually worked and supported that event. And it really, like I do a lot of manifestation on a daily basis. Sometimes I have even the overnight manifestation, you know.

So it is a big part of my life. And I personally think it has made me a better person, you know, because you have that strong belief, you believe in karma, what goes around comes around, you know, and you manifest it into the universe and things like that. It has made like more fulfilling, more richer life as well.

So it is a big part and it is a daily part for me. I'm maybe not so consequent as you do, you know, I think you do much more celebration than I do. But you celebrate, you know, you do your tea ceremonies and things like that.

I'm not there yet. But I bring a lot of appreciation, you know, I appreciate my life, I appreciate my eight cats. Oh, yes.

Oh, yes. I appreciate my kids. I appreciate my opportunities.

I appreciate my clients, you know. So a lot comes with appreciation. And in the end of the day, also manifestation.

So I really believe you get what you say and what you think. So I don't like people around me. They say, oh, no, we're not going to achieve our target this month, you know.

I just can't stand it. So for me, no, I will only give up at the very last, like I will never give up, you know, I will do my level best until the last moment, until the month close. That's where I, until then, there is no, we will achieve.

Because if my mind has given up already, then we will not achieve, you know. So these are these things. But it's me now.

It's not me thinking that I have to do that. You understand? The thinking is the feeling.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You are more in the feeling than in the thinking. Exactly, yeah.

And you know, when you said it came closer to me, I had the impression that it came exactly when your readiness was there at the right point. Yeah. Maybe before when you were working so hard and you had to focus on the kids and so on, there was no readiness and it could have been spilled all over your life.

There was no possibility to absorb it somehow. And I think this is for everybody who's taking that path. So I absorbed it also in a period of life where I was ready to absorb it and had also no other way to go but to look at beyond.

And that's something I think that's concerning spirituality, also in business. I combine it or when I combine it, it's something when I can see where this is kicking in, when somebody is ready.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

But do you think now reflecting in this moment, I think because I was alone, alone, alone, even here alone in the region with my kids, you just have to get on with it and you have to solve it. And I think you and I, we had a conversation about this, that asking for help, allowing help, I never gave me that permission. And I think that also has changed.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

I have given myself the permission. I don't need to do it all on myself. I should be, it is okay to ask for help.

And also now, you know, Andrea, Andrea Coquera. So with her, I also had some sessions about going deeper into yourself, looking where is the root cause of some of my behaviors, giving, having the deep conversations, opening up, giving your like, really being honest to yourself, reflecting why certain behaviors you exhibit, you know. And then what it causes because you do that, you know.

And then in the minute you realize, it actually is the first step for change. And I think that's also the permission to ask for help. I haven't had, you were very open.

You were, you always ask for help. I always, yeah. And I didn't, I didn't have that.

I always felt I can't ask. Because also in, you know, in the past when I asked people, nobody was helping, you know. And it was always coming with, well, I do this for you and I want that in return, you know.

So I never wanted to be dependent on others, you know. Because in the end of the day, I felt often let down by people I was depending on, you know. I asked so many people for help and then they actually didn't deliver the help.

But like, for example, Julia, Julia, she's so reliable. If I know, if I ask her today for help, she will, except that she's not available, she will make her way, she will go out of her way to help me. I haven't had these people in my life before.

Now I have them. And that has given me.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

So that is something also about frequency. You give out this frequency, then you receive it. I don't know why I have this sort of behavior that I'm not hesitating of asking for help.

It's so nice. But I don't know. I always also not expect everybody to help me who I'm asking.

But who I ask, I think maybe I can get only a little bit. And if I'm not getting all of the help to the end, it might have been just a little piece, a little stone, a puzzle piece towards my goal. And I then have to have maybe the second or third person with the same topic.

I do this quite often that I over cross. I ask different people with the same challenge. And then I merge it together.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

But that's a mindset. You know, it's a mindset thing that you open. Like I'm now or even before I was always like in normally in work life.

Yeah. I was always open because I know I don't know it alone. And you can't like being a leader.

I can't change the world alone, you know. So you always have to bring people early in into your thinking. Evaluate because everybody has something to contribute and then together with so much stronger.

And because you have the early engagement, they embrace the idea also on an early stage and then they will walk with it, you know. In my private life, I didn't have that because I was alone. You know, so I felt left alone.

My husband left me, you know. So it's like I felt alone and I didn't have that secure environment around me. And then a few friends I had often when it was really critical that they weren't there.

So it's again for me new having people like yourself or Julia in my life where I know I can count on them, you know. And no matter what will happen, they will not judge me. But for that, I think also needs to be a certain person, you know, personality.

You know, you and also Julia, you had a tough life too, you know. So you went through it. You know what it means, you know.

So that's where your attitude is very different as well.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah, but sometimes there was this one fancy dinner that I initiated because I really wanted to make you feel secure somehow. Excuse me. Because I felt there is kind of a barrier for you to merge in.

Or I don't know how to explain it really much in words. But there was a gap between deep, deep trust. And I feel always my family is never in a union, unfortunately.

Yeah. If they sit on a table, one goes to the toilet, it's been picked on the same person. So imagine you're on a birthday party, you never go to the toilet.

Otherwise, you'll be the one who has been picked on. Somehow this attitude my family has, you know. My born family, my parents and so, they are all good.

But that's why I stepped early away from my family. And I always had this sort of attitude that the friends around me are the family that I can actually choose. And I don't have massive of these people.

You are one of them that I count as my family chosen friends. And yeah, and I wanted to give this feeling to you. And I'm so proud the way that we came now, almost four years.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

And that specific dinner actually, again, opened up a lot of like... Knowings about each other.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Exactly. We understood on a very deeper level. So it's not only business.

It's really true friendship. And I'm so proud of ourselves. I'm turning and talking about the friendship.

Let's do this fancy game here. There is these cards.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Should we do this? Yeah, I don't know what is it about.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Just choose a card and then we have a question.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

I have to ask you or you ask me?

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

So I will ask you first.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

So what do you think I should let go of? Wow. Okay, what do I think you should let go of?

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Too much cats. You have so many cats.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

I love each of them, you know, eight stray cats. Honestly, you cannot imagine how beautiful it is, you know, because they need so much. I think that's also why I'm still single.

Because I get so much love, you know, so much attention. You know, they talk to me all the time. You know, when I come home, I'm never alone.

You know, it's beautiful.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

I only have one dog, but that's also good. But cats, I don't know. I'm accepting cats.

And if my children didn't want to have really a cat, then I wouldn't have had cats. Have you had cats? Yes, yes.

Even two. One even came pregnant in our life. I had really the strong feeling I need to keep this cat.

I found it on Christmas Eve when my son was actually in the tidal wave in Sri Lanka with my parents on vacation. And I felt at this day that I had to keep this cat because out of grace that my son and my family was not harmed in the tidal wave.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

But I tell you what I should, what I think I should let go of is I'm very passionate and then I get very loud and very like strong. And I think that I need to learn to control.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

So you mean a little bit more softness?

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Yeah.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

You gain a bit more softness and let off this stubbornness that Angela previously had?

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Maybe. No, but I know it and it was given to me. You know, if I, especially when I work with new clients, they say like, oh, you're very strong, you know, because I'm so, because I know what I know.

And then I become very defensive on my opinion. And I think, not defensive, but like, I'm very strong. No, no, I think we need to do it like this, you know.

And I think that I have to learn to become a little bit more softer, let it a little bit more go. And, you know, that I would say from a business point of view.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Okay, let me dive in. What is this? What's your most vivid memory from your childhood?

Vivid? What does it mean exactly?

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Oh my God, that's a difficult question. Most vivid experience of your childhood. Wow.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Actually, I don't know. I inspire you. I have one vivid moment of my childhood.

And it was a birthday of mine that I felt really loved. And so many times I remember as a child, I felt not loved. Somehow I was always lonely.

I was climbing on this tree, sitting on this tree, sitting there by myself, being on the swing, being by myself, playing in the sandbox, being by myself. But in this birthday, I'm born on Dr. Angela Thomasnd of June, and it was my 10th birthday. I remember that I was having 10 children.

So we was even always allowed to get per year some friends at home. So I was allowed to invite 10 children at my age, of course, and or people that I liked. So I had 10 friends with me.

And we had this in the garden, this table of a birthday cake and so on. And everybody was having its place. And on my very side of the table for my birthday cake, there was, I don't know the English word of this flower, flieder.

What is the English word? I don't know. However, it's a special smelling plant that is only growing in really the spring season for a very short time.

And as this must have been a very late spring season, it was then in the beginning of June still available. So all around my plate, there was this flieder sitting around. And I was feeling so blessed because I always felt denied by my bigger sister.

And I saw her placing all these flowers around this table and my plate. And then there was this cake my mom had made with the 10 on it. And that was a very vivid moment of my childhood.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Yeah, beautiful. You know, for me, I think being the second born and my father was very strict. I was just thinking while you were talking, it was not that there was like amazing experiences, because there was always my father was always like very dominant.

And there was a lot always with fear to make something wrong, say something wrong, you know, not behaving right. You know, I had to have short hair all my childhood and whatever. So I don't have like a lot of exciting moments, you know.

And I think most exciting it was when I was allowed to go for horse riding camps and stuff like this, you know, so that they allowed us. So summer camps, we went like for several years. I was going on horse riding summer camps.

That was amazing. And you know, when I did jumping, horse jumping and whatever. So that was great.

You still horse ride here? Yeah. Very good.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

We have to go one time together. Let's have another car. Yes, yes, yes.

So what is on this one? One sentence. Describe the home you grew up in.

Again, another childhood question.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

My mom is my best friend. So I think I was brought up by her with lots and lots of love, which was really, really beautiful. And and I think to a certain degree, there were really amazing parents because they were married and like 63 years, you know, with a sister and so on.

So, yeah, I think, yeah. Okay, for you?

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

For me, it is performance is rewarded. And yeah, it is rewarded to be eager. Eagerness is rewarded.

That's actually, yeah.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

So I will do go go. So let's see, Angela. Finish the sentence.

One small way I can better show up for myself is. One small way I can better show up for myself is.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Always in business. I always show up in business. I always can show better up in business than.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

One small way I can better show up for myself is being punctual, being kind, open minded.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

I'm always punctual. I know. I hate to be unpunctual.

Being late. Yeah, I always I always have a time of puffiness so much that it is always going to be on time. One more.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Yeah, let's go. What subject is our family most qualified to give advice about? What subject is our family most qualified to give advice about?

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

OK, my family advice about construction. They building and they do whatever. And when it comes to construction, this is so funny.

That is on my forehead is victim written. I always try to avoid. But I have this implanted seeds of something sticked onto me about all of these constructions.

Any kind of handyman comes to my home, try to tell me some kind of fairy tales about, you know, what goes and not. I eventually know. But I don't want to.

For me, it's education.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Education. Because my mom was a kindergarten teacher, you know, and I think we were always taught about so many things. My father was engineer and and I think school was always a topic, you know, being like education.

And this is what I do today. You know, we both have a doctorate, a PhD, and then I'm also a lecturer in some of the universities, specifically for retail. So I think it's like education, learning.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Education for me is a big pile of self-love for me because it is it was never given. And in my birth, in my birth, in my upbringing, basically, I grew up in East Germany. There was never education so much in hype.

But it was much more a hype if you could farm the field of carrots or so. It was much more appreciated. And also in school, I was never the one who was like kind of said, you're going to make it really good.

It was always said, you can be happy if you finish 10th grade. Yeah, always belittling. I was talking about an old school.

I was talking about that with an old school colleague not too long ago, some few days. She saw my status of achieving being a PhD. And she said, it's so amazing how far you came.

And I said, yeah. And you know, what was my biggest motivation? Those teachers who never believed in me.

Those who were my biggest motivation, those teachers who told me you never learn a second language really good. You never can make a speech in front of a lot of people. Because, of course, also I had a very strong Saxonian accent when I was little.

You know, of course, I grew up in East Germany. So, yeah. And that was something that I realized then that is much of a portion of self-love.

Yeah, amazing. Amazing. And, you know, congratulations once again.

Thank you. And again, I'm learning Arabic. This is also something that a lot of people say, that's a hard language.

You're not going to do it. I was like, let me show you.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let me prove them wrong. And I was one of them because I tried it.

It's very hard.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah, it is. But it is also fun. Yeah, let's wrap it up, Heike.

It was so nice for me to have you here as my chosen family. Likewise. Beautiful.

And I count you to my dearest friend. I know when I call you at night, you're one of the ones who picks up and the other way around. So I'm very happy to have you not only as a sister of a chosen heart from another mother, but also as a business sister here that we can support each other.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me here today. Lovely.

Learned a lot again today in our conversation. And anyone who needs advice, Angela and I, we're certainly here and we're really happy to help.

[Speaker Dr. Angela Thomas]

Exactly. Thank you. Thank you.

[Dr. Heike Lieb-Wilson]

Thank you so much.