DECISIONS UNDER PRESSURE. BUILT TO SAVES LIVES

Skillionaires Podcast

Episode 25

Prof. Dr. Tamer Said

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Welcome to the Dubai Docs Diary show here, where we speak about doctors that build really careers in the Middle East and have a breakthrough with their success in clinical, professional and reputational success here. And today I have Professor Dr. Tamar Zaid Salama, an experienced surgeon with experience in general surgery, laparoscopy, surgery, particle surgery and of course, healthcare quality excellence. And this episode is for those who wanted to know a little bit more about this profession, being a doctor here in Dubai, what it takes to not only be successful, but also stay successful.

And we have the really backed and proof here with Dr. Tamar Zaid. I'm so happy to have you here. And for those who meet you or see you the first time in this podcast, explain us out of your point of view, what are your specifications?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Thank you so much, Angela. Really, I'm so happy to be with you today. And thank you for this amazing introduction.

This was very nice of you. See, I'm Dr. Tamar Salama. I'm a consultant of, as you said, of laparoscopic and general surgery.

I'm the head of the Center of Excellence to be honored to be this three Center of Excellence and one of the biggest private hospital in Dubai, Center of Excellence for bariatric or weight loss surgery and Center of Excellence for minimal invasive surgery, and the Center of Excellence for proctology surgery. And to be honest with you, it was one of my strengths point or one of my broad point because it's the first time in UAE for a general surgery department to have this three Center of Excellence or three specialty at the same time. This is one of the most point abroad.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Wow, that sounds very like you invested a lot of dignity and work into your career. And let me just jump right to the beginning. How come that you wanted to be a doctor in the first place?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

See, I will tell you something. I'll tell you from the start. I'm coming from a family who all of my most of my family, like mom, father, mom, and even my uncles are physician and they are surgeons.

So I grew up in this career, I grew up in this field. Honestly, I grew up in a field who I see how taking care of the patient is very important, how it can affect human life, how it can make even our family life like happy or not happy, changing our schedule, going out, not going out. So I grew up in all of this.

I believe this is one of the most important point which put the cornerstone for my character. What the second question is, why a surgeon? See, surgery, I believe is not a career.

Surgery is identity. Surgery is a character.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Oh, you said this is so beautiful.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Yeah, you know, I'll tell you something. I always say that to my audience and then my social media. When you saw someone who can take a fast, rapid decision under pressure, mostly he's a surgeon.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Because this is a quality that I'm always looking in people. Can you do fast decisions?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Fast, not only fast, fast, rapid decision under pressure.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very good.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

You imagine you imagine this with every time you grow up with every time you mature, you realize the value of that someone is coming who don't know you, who don't know anything about you. And just he come by his own decision, just to put his life or put his neck or whatever under your knife. It's not easy.

It's not an easy. I believe this is the most difficult agreement between two body in the life.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Wow, wow, you put it this so beautiful. Thank you. So yeah, you came, you was brought up in an academic family.

So it was not so far fetched that you had to go also to university. You studied, I believe, in preparation in Alexandria, right?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

No, I'm a professor in Champs University, which is one of the biggest universities in the Middle East. And it's ranking worldwide. You are very smart.

So I will tell you because this is was the second cornerstone in my life. You know, sometimes the God put in you, you stones you go through a pathway. Yes, you don't know the end of the pathway, but God knows where we go.

So this is one of the biggest university and the most strong university in the Middle East. Until now, I remember everything my professors and my, my colleagues taught me, you know, the first colleague who caught my hand and put to do the first surgery. I will never forget this.

Yeah, you know, so I believe yes, the university was very important during this period to make part of my character or part of my career now. Yeah.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah. But so you studied here in Dubai. Did I understand this right?

Or you studied in Alexandria on the university?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

No, in some universities in Cairo in them in the capital.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Okay.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Okay. So if you ask me, 10 years back, you are going to work in Dubai, I will tell you why. Yes, that's what is actually my question leading to why Dubai?

Well, it was very far from my mind. And I was I was working very nicely. Good.

I'm a professor in the university have a lot of patient, but but most of my patient was coming from the Middle East and especially Dubai. So they were coming to me in in Cairo to do the procedure. I was doing like 20 to 30 procedure per month in which is a huge number.

Then when COVID happened, a lockdown happened. I found that I should take a decision because you know, all of my patient was stuck though. I'm stuck in a place and they stuck the place.

Okay. So I should take a decision that I should take a step first. By matter of luck, I found even until now, I didn't decide to go to go to Dubai or where I found a call from one of the big hospital here in Dubai.

He told me Dr. Tamir, we were following you for the past two years. And we need you to build up the first center of excellence for weight loss surgery in our hospital.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Wow. And we all know what hospital that is.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Yeah. Yeah. So you know, this, this is this what I'm telling you, every moment when you feel that what is my next step, just just relax and wait.

God will open the window to you. Just just. So I told him fine.

And I came this was like 2019. Okay. Nine months after I came, I got I accredited with them by the first center of excellence they have.

My first patient which I did for weight loss surgery here was 220 kilogram, which is which is year after another hospital, they call me and tell me Dr. Tamir, we need to open a new center of excellence. And I started to move move this hospital, which is still working for five years now. And we did all of this achievement or all of this center of excellence.

Yeah.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very good. Very, very interesting. So tell me a little bit what is in your first steps that you came here?

Well, you was in a very good position that they have asked you and went after you because you had your repetition already build it up in your home country. But what was the most challenging part of coming here and start working? Where were the biggest differences?

What you'd know from your from your home country?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Let me tell you some tips and tricks for any for for my young colleagues, or even for for for any colleague who want to take this movement or take this step. First of all, if you believe in yourself, and if you believe in your talent, it will not make a difference wherever you're working. You are talented.

This is this is part of your personality. So to reach the top in a certain place, and you you take a decision to start to repeat it again, from in another place, don't be afraid because I see a lot of people who said I'm going to start from zero and yes, no, my friend, no, you are talented. This is part of your character.

You're going to copy paste what you are talented to do. So what I'm doing here, it's the same what I did in Egypt is the same what I'm going to do the part of my character. So first, don't be afraid.

This is number one. Number two, the movement itself, it gives you passion, it gives you another reason to succeed. Sometimes when you reach you do everything in a place.

So it was every success, it becomes more difficult to have a new target or a new success. So if you feel that you reached the maximum of the top in a place, take a step to another place and repeat what you're doing. This is this is self, you know, self motivation is you build up a new reason.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yes.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Why you are doing this.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

If you are the biggest in one room, you have to change the room.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

That's it. Yeah.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

With a more larger room. This is very important. Yes, I agree with you.

So this is a second third point. Dubai is a multi culture city. So it's a very challenging city.

Let me let me tell you something. A lot of people think that Dubai is like only the heaven, you come here and stay you sleep and you go up in the morning, take your salary. And that's it.

Yeah, my beach and my friend, this is not Dubai.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah, it's not Dubai. Yeah.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Dubai doesn't accept with the average people. If you are not talented, if you are not strong, if you are not willing, yeah, if you are if you if you are not one of the top, you will not survive in Dubai, you will take if you're not willing to be one of the top 100%. If you don't know what's your step, if you don't know how to put your fingerprint, if you don't know what you are coming to do.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Yeah. Even you don't have time to just I will give my me a little bit time to think what I'm going. No, no, no.

Dubai doesn't accept with the average.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yes.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Dubai need only top people above average. But but I will tell you something to be honest with you. It's fair.

If you are if you are talented, you're going to take your position, which is very important. You're working and you know that you're going to reach what you deserve the something the position you deserve it. So this is Dubai, you're going to work you have the experience you're going to be talented.

And you're going to be a hard worker. You're going to take your position you're going to they are going to put you on the top. That's it.

So Dubai definitely is a good opportunity for anyone who who trusts himself and need to reach a certain position.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yes. I find regarding that the quote of our Sheikh Mohammed very good. He always says, whether you are a lion or a gazelle, if sun rises in Dubai, you better run.

And that is something that is always motivating me so much. Because it doesn't matter in what position everybody is so motivated here. And I think that's also the beauty of this place that that those people doesn't matter on what background or in which position they are, they are motivated here because they cannot afford to not run when the sun rises.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Very smart to motivate and to get out of the people the maximum. They are very smart in this. Okay.

And the second which I said you before, they are fair enough, that if you're good, and if you are talented, we are going to put you into position which is very important. Sometime you're working in a place, you're doing your best and you're one of the best, but you didn't take your rights, you didn't take your position, you didn't take what you deserve, which can go by the opposite, can suppress you, can make you unmotivated. Okay.

But here is not like this. If you're good and you're running, you're taking to another step, they are with you.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah, it's such a beautiful place also where you are allowed to be successful because I see it a lot of times in Europe. That's one of the major reasons why I left Europe is actually because I always had to apologize to be successful, to be willingness to go to the next room, to get the next level. And that is something that I like so much about Dubai.

So tell us for your young colleagues who would like to come to Dubai, what would be the first three steps you would advise them to do?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

See, when I come to Dubai, I was already a consultant or I was already a professor. So I came to Dubai from the big door. My first advice, some of my colleagues, they come just after graduation and they want to come and they said we can start in any job or any level, point of entry for any job.

This is not good, my friend. Again, if you start from the big door, if you go in from the big door, you are going to start from a big level and you are going to continue for a big level. On the opposite, if you start in a small job, you will take a lot of time and you'll take, you need a lot of effort to go to the next step.

So don't rush, don't rush to come to Dubai unless you have a solid base. You are standing in solid land. Here I'm professor Dr. Tamer Salama, who already did a center of excellence in Egypt. It gave me a big advantage when I came here. So don't rush, make your solid base, invest in your education, invest in yourself until you are strong enough, then enter it.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

I think also when it comes to your profession, this here is not a land where you train yourself to be good. You have to be already here when you are good because also the number of operations, you have different timetables here in Dubai, I suppose, when I compare it to Germany, they have like kind of so many operations on one day, then that's where you learn to be routined. That's where you learn your skills really to develop and then you can come here in Dubai and be routined and be the expert that this market is looking for.

Is that right?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

I agree with you 100%. I agree with you. That's what I'm telling you.

When you come, if you are coming and you are looking from the up position, it will be much more better than looking from down to up. But I will add you something. Even if you are coming or enter from the big door or you are strong position or a big position, you should be malleable to accept the modality or the new technology which will be here in Dubai available.

Dubai, one of the most advantage of it that any new technology, they are open their hand to accept it. So even with the expertise, you come, you should be able to accept this new techniques, this new modality, you should working on yourself, modifying yourself to be updated, to be always in this top.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah. Thank you for your insights. So when you came to Dubai then and this hospital wanted you to work there.

Obviously, they helped you along with the licensing process, data flow process and all of these things. Can you tell us if you would have done this for yourself, by yourself, would it have been easy or would you have rather had some guidance? Were you happy that they did it or how was it?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Tell us a little bit about it. The first step for this finalized license and such points, I was supported by one of the company, which is, I believe and I suggest for my colleagues who want to come is better because there's some fine details which we don't know it. Which if someone is involved, it will be much more easier and much more faster.

But because again, my background is coming from university. This may facilitate a little bit to finalize all of my documentation. But yes, I was supported with one of the companies.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very good. Yeah. So when you then had your license started to work, were you surprised by the salary that you was offered in a good way?

Or would you thought like, the price model for my salary could have been a better? How is it? I find always it's kind of a negotiation here where people in Europe have to, you know, take what they get.

Here you can also negotiate. And if you know you're good, is it also recommendable to be, you get a part of a commission of the things that you do, the operations that you do?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Very smart. Tricky question. See, I will tell you something.

My personality, what I'm going to say, I don't, it's not obligation for anyone, but I'm going to say what I'm doing and my way of thinking. Okay. When I start working, my first concern, I just want to prove or say who is professor Dr. Tamer Salam. So I don't care at all. I never negotiate in my contract. You got my point.

So the first point, I'm going to speak about the first contract. I never negotiate about it because first point, this is your first enter to the country. And you didn't still, you didn't show what you can do and what everyone can speak.

Everyone can say I can do, I can do, I can do. But on the reality, we don't know what's going to happen.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very humble. I really like this quality. Very humble.

A lot of people, they are at this point then like a shark and they just try to step into the door like what they did before in their home country. And you was just willing to put your ego away and say, okay, I'm humbled. I'm starting somehow not with my expertise, but with my repetition from zero.

And that's what I have to take.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Yeah. I will do something. I should do my part first and I should show you who I am and what I can do.

Then by the end, the judgment will be for you. So again, for the first contract, I never negotiate. Let me tell you the point.

And even the, after the first one to the second and the third quadrant, I never ask for something. Already they saw what I did, the center of excellence, my work, my expertise, what I'm doing. So they, whatever they told me, which is more or less is fair enough for what I'm doing.

I accept it. And the good one and the excellent one, no, he don't need to negotiate in this, you know, prove yourself, do your best and everything will go smoothly.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very good. Very good. So yeah.

How is it actually then hospitals that really like you, clinics? Can you also work with clinics and small centers?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

No, no, no. Since I started working, I have some, some like, you know, pillars in my, my, my life. I work only on a big hospital with a good reputation who care for the patient life more than they care for.

I never, never work in place or accept to work in a place. They ask me about revenue. They ask me about the number of the patients.

They ask me never, never happened. So yeah, this is, I believe this is one of my, the cornerstone of my success because I have, I put outline for myself. I never go out of this.

I use the best instrument for my patient. This is, this patient can be my brother, can be my mother. And actually I did a surgery for my mother and my sister.

I mean, you know, no, it wasn't, but I mean, by the way, even in Egypt, I was using the top instrument.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

The patient is a patient.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yes.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

The patient is a patient. Patient is, um, again, how are you going to convince this person to put his life under my hat? This, that's what I'm telling you now.

This is what the convincing this, when they come to me from any city, like Abu Dhabi, like Rhein, they come because of this. We need Dr. Tamer because we know him, we hear about him, his reputation with our family in the case. This is what happened.

So, I mean, I only work on a big hospital with the best reputation, with the, they care about the patient and they have the best technology.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah. So, um, I'm, I'm interested in, are you helping actually also colleagues, young students to basically get their skills shaped up here in Dubai? The landscape of training medical experts, doctors has been very much developed.

And what part do you see this, this goes within the next five years? What directions do you think we are entering in this five years? And are you a part of it?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Yeah. See, let me tell you, in Egypt, I was already in a professor in university, medical educational university. So it was part, and here I'm the one who established in my private hospital, the general surgery, uh, internship in the, in the program.

Yeah. Yeah. So yes, we have residency program in our hospital and we are upgrading them.

Definitely we have some difficulties. Okay. Because we are the private sector.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Okay.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

But we are working on it. And I if you ask me about the future of the medical aspect in the UAE, I believe it will be very good. I see a lot of societies, uh, which is like a society for different specialties.

You're doing a lot of good efforts to educate and to introduce a new technology. They are open-minded for the surrounding innovation. So I believe, no, we are, we are going to be the hub for the medical service.

I think so too.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yeah. I think so too, where the Middle East has been looking for centuries to what's a Europe and the West as such for being or having orientation in the health industry. I think it is about time where if we not even in it, in the middle of it, where it totally shifts, where everybody's looking to the Middle East to get the orientation of technology of education in the medical field of the, even of the experts, because what I witnessed and just, I wanted to maybe have your point of view on it.

I witnessed that there is a totally shift on in the completely Middle East as from Germany, a lot of experts are coming to what's the Middle East and the whole system there is so much under stress because all the Syrian doctors are leaving Germany to build up their country. And now Germany does something very unsmart and even maybe smart. They think it's a smart move, but I found out that the German government is actually recruiting on the Egyptian universities for coming to Europe to work there as a medical expert or do their studies till the end.

So finish it off, makes them having then some medical experts where then is actually Saudi Arabia in the game, which has been for years actually recruiting on Egyptian universities and get their stuff, their experts from there. And now they found out that so many European really people who are already, yeah, wanted to deliver, wanted to be a good doctor, but not anymore agreeing with the system, with the politics there and they're leaving. So the Middle East is opening up to all of these talents.

I think this is something so beautiful. And for me, it's, I'm so proud to be a part of it and part of the city to witness this in front of my eyes. What is your witnessing and what is your expertise in that?

What do you think about the whole situation?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

I'll tell you something. Let me tell you some number from, I love statistic analysis. First point due to a lot of circumstance around us, we are in a huge dynamic state.

So a lot of change is going to happen worldwide. You're going to see a lot of reconfiguration for a lot of positions, not only in the medical field, medical and non-medical. So a lot of change is going to happen.

Some are going, as you said, from European or come to Middle East, some from the Middle East, from Egypt, Syrian or will go to European to replace, you know, so a lot of change, the world which you see in the past 10 years will not be the world you are going to see in the upcoming 10 years. This is first point. Second point, which is very important by statistic analysis in my surgery, in my clinic, you know, 70% of my patients are European patients.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Are they?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And this is, and this is Dubai. Yeah. This is what I told him to start.

What I mean, these people have their own expectation. They have their own requirement. So if we don't face this expectation as regard their quality, as regard the techniques, as regard the innovation, we are not going to win them.

We are not going to take the trust. This is what I'm taking. So the configuration of the nature or multicultural in Dubai put an impact or stamp on what we should do.

If you are not on the top level, as regard everything, you will not gain the trust of this population.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yes. Yes. It is so true.

Thank you for, for your seeings. And I'm so grateful that I see it on the same pattern somehow. And I'm very astonished that a lot of European clients are coming, patients coming to you.

So how is it here with patients? How is it here to be a patient? In Europe, you have this insurance card that you directly cash with your insurance or with the hospital is directly cashing in the insurance.

How is it working here?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

I believe this is one of the advantages in UAE as a whole, the insurance system, that you have a strong insurance system, which cover 90% of the population. By the law is not allowed to work or to have a contract without covering insurance.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yes.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

So most of the population is insured. Okay. But still we have a margin like 10 to 20% which is cash patient coming for vacation, coming and still in the beginning for the process of the finding the job.

We also try to accommodate them by making like discounted offers, like reducing the prices with any, from any point of view. And they also, also this category, we try to accommodate as much as we can with giving the same service or the best service we give for the insurance patient.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Yes. Yeah. But in generally, then you have actually no direct billing with the insurance, but the patient is prepaying and then they reimbursed it with their insurance.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Is that right? Or how is it working in a hospital? No, no, no, no.

The contract with insurance, everything will be the insurance.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Everything.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Okay. Only the patient pay like 5 to 10% according to his contract with his insurance. But in most of the cases, in 80% of the cases, we deal directly with insurance.

The patient just take his service and that's it. But some cases, as you said, especially for the international insurance, if he's insurance not based on Dubai, based on another country, yes, this may happen that the patient pay. And, but even if this happened, we also make agreement with his based insurance or back home insurance before we proceed.

We should get like some type of approval.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Approval. Yeah.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Especially in the emergency situation.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

So that's very interesting because it leads me to another question that I wanted to really have placed here. A lot of people, especially in your field, have the misconception that the age of the population is not high enough to have sort of these kind of lifestyle disease based surgeries, or even you mentioned weight loss based surgeries, and that they don't actually exist so much here like anywhere else because the population here is very healthy, health orientated. How do you estimate the population here?

Is it a good base? You have enough clients, patients, or you work more on the prevention of your patients to prevent everything that they could suffer off?

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

See, what you're speaking about, this is speaking about the epidemiology of the disease in Dubai or UAE, which is again, because of the continuous change in the population type, there is a continuous dynamic change in the disease. For example, at a certain stage, there was laxative disease and the hemorrhoid was very common and still is very common because of the spicy food, which is very common among the Indians and even among the Europeans who like to eat the Indian food. At a certain moment when the fast food was, there was a lot of campaign and it was very common, the incidence of obesity was high and we were doing a lot of cases of weight loss surgery.

But because we are one of the top cities for using the new medication like Monjaro and like, you know, so this type of surgery go down a little bit and start using the Monjaro. So I mean, even this is changing with the change of the new technology or the new medication or the type of population which is in Dubai. And that's what I'm speaking of with you, because in the past, some surgeons or doctors are used to do certain type of surgery, that's it.

And we don't do anything else. When the bariatric surgery decrease, they're stuck because of what I'm going to do. So again, my friend, you are a surgeon, you are a talented surgeon.

You are treating weight loss, you are treating the reflux, you are treating the thyroid, you are treating the hemorrhoid. So whenever they need me to support, I'm going to support.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very good. Well, thank you, Dr. Tamar.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Thank you.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

To actually be here. Let me pick your brain, shukran, asante sana.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Thank you, shukran.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

It was a pleasure. So a little guidance for our clients, for our listeners, we will have the show notes filled with your contacts, but let us know where we can find you in generally.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

I'm a professor and a consultant in the Saudi German hospital. I'm happy to accommodate and to meet anyone in my clinic. It's the main branch in Dubai and I have a big social media, you can share whatever you want.

I'm happy. I'm replying the message and everything with my audience.

[Dr. Angela Thomas]

Very good. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Prof. Dr. Tamer Said]

Thank you.