THE BLUEPRINT OF CONSCIOUS GROWTH

Skillionaires Podcast Episode 8

Christian Kiefer

[Angela Thomas]

Welcome to the new podcast episode of the Scale Your New Podcast here where stories stick and tragedies that scale and today I have somebody with me that is really an icon in the spa and wellness industry and I'm so happy to have Christian Kiefer here today because he drives from spa revenue into a really revenue machine from well-being to a revenue machine and very welcome Christian and I'm so happy to have you thanks for having me yeah I have one question right away just tell me how did you enter the wellness industry because I know that's been a little bit of a sidetrack that you have came to it well how many minutes we have 45 minutes

[Christian Kiefer]

that's actually a very long story but I try to to nutshell it for you well when I was in in Germany I was an industrial sales manager your normal you know nine to five job and I was DJing professionally back in the days and I felt I was only working for the weekend you know I didn't feel that purpose in life and then you know sometimes for relaxation we drove to the to the east of Germany spent some time in the wellness hotels and I felt great you know but that was like 20 years ago yes and I thought to myself why not making that my profession you know I really feel amazing whenever I leave from here and I did my my wellness practitioner in Hamburg went to evening school drove to to Hamburg every every evening for one hour on top of my regular job office job and then I had my degree I you know left the company I handed in my resignation and I moved to cruise ships as a massage therapist slash assistant manager for my first contract with Steiner leisure back in the days I was with them for three and a half years I did my spa management degree in Miami in Florida and then I came to Dubai wow that was really a nutshell version normally I take like an hour to tell that story very good

[Angela Thomas]

for that nutshell that we can move on uh fasting forward a little bit you had then entered the wellness industry with there was a situation where you came to want to have your own business now you first was in the cruising environment what then had brought you into the situation of doing your

[Christian Kiefer]

own thing yeah I actually love this question because I think it's uh very good for any entrepreneur to to hear that answer yeah because it's a little bit of a leap of faith bravery insanity in one cases as well but no no you you um for me it was it was this way I was starting with as a as a spa manager that was when the Burj Khalifa foundation was laid so it was a very long time ago and I was with IMA for quite some time I think it was three years four years and then I moved to Abu Dhabi back in the days with Oliver Key who was the opening general manager for the Armani hotel and then he moved as a as a GM opening GM to the St. Regis I opened the St. Regis nation towers I remember that I was still with Starwood and then I was area director for Starwood for the Middle East for some time and then they wanted me to open up the Haptor complex which is where Lapelle is located right now which was a very very big construction site yeah and I had already been through two pre-openings at that time and I did a lot of work for for group level and I was thinking to myself oh god now I have to sit again for three years with a helmet on my head and go through construction plants and do this this pre-opening it was of huge dimensions I just didn't want to do it and I was thinking to myself and does this really have have purpose again to to you know do another lengthy pre-opening and it was a kind of you know a gap in the road and I had to choose do I go left and do I go right and then I thought you know maybe I should just do my own thing I was I was ready for it and I I think you know the time was right and I had something lined up already you know in case something like this would ever happen okay and then I was very lucky to be you know supported by Sheikh Rashid which is ruling family of Ajman yes actually his his wife one of his four wives Sheikha Kaula Alnayan she used to come to my spas and you know she was always very happy and you know we we opened up that project together to create the first hospitality wellness brand in the region which was supported by Ajman ruling family and that was then opened in the retreat M gallery on the palm yes and I created yes that was the first you know it's a mothership that was how everything started we had a lot of backlash from Accor back in the days because obviously this is normally supposed to be a soul spa as it as it is a Sofitel however with the support of the ruling family and the owning company support we managed eight years ago actually we just had our eight years anniversary wow I think it was last week we had this big celebration yeah we managed to break that you know stereotype and opened up the first hospitality wellness center within a hotel not only that we were able to rename the hotel which is also unique normally it would have to be an M gallery but we named it the retreat yes so we managed to be the first hotel in the region that is facilitating retreats and that's when Raya was born as my first brainchild and from there onwards you know obviously you know it was a

[Angela Thomas]

yeah it was a bigger journey yeah I was actually in preparation of this interview diving into the timeline of the retreat and I was just finding all these corporate touch points and I was thinking how he did that and very good insightful to see that you even collaborate and be supported by the family it only outlines actually how big is the position of wellness and the whole industry here in the Middle East I think it has a totally different status as somewhere in Europe maybe not as in US I think it's even a little bit bigger in US but here in Middle East I think it's a bit more stable visible actually included in the culture isn't it yeah I mean if you go back

[Christian Kiefer]

eight years ago that was not necessarily the case there was a lot of vision but there was not really the hunger not for wellness and also I believe that back in the days just Dubai wasn't ready for it there was a lot of lack of education and I think that has been obviously ironed out by force as we all know I think COVID really really helped everybody to realize you know that there is the need for connection there is the need for going back to basics there is the need for you know connecting with your family with your inner self with your inner child with your you know spiritual world it's it's really everything is wellness and it's all connected that's why the terminology of wellness is very very vast and confusing for for many because if I ask what is wellness for you or may ask somebody else I will get completely different answers however it is on the on the vision board for you know the the future of Dubai to make wellness a pillar of society yes and we are definitely on that driving force of making that happen but it requires a lot of you know support from the government obviously now you know just October you know I've been to four conferences and and it's continuing on now with Dubai active industry this weekend and and it's just it's just a lot going on and that's good for me to see because back then that was not the case all right so so we we have knocked on a lot of doors and now you know that that you know wellness movement is here to stay yeah yeah as everybody knows my

[Angela Thomas]

background from the beauty industry when you know me from five years ago before I even came to Dubai I had a lot of 30 some years in the beauty and wellness industry on my shoulders and a lot of people yeah they wanted to be really sucking onto your brain I bet they are very happy that I have such a good podcast a guest here interview guest and that's why I wanted to go a little bit back to that place where you said okay I'm gonna do my own thing yeah from that corporate world and into your own stuff managing even to operate with this corporate connections that you formed years ago Christian tell our community where did you feel really that that is a scaling moment now I have to scale or now I want to scale or that's a tangible moment which I wanted to actually not only do one but enlarge all and leverage all my activities where was this point I mean

[Christian Kiefer]

just I wanted to touch base as well for the for your questions previously because I think for for us in hospitality as wellness and spa professionals there is a roof of growth unfortunately we cannot be part of the XCOM we can't grow into GM roles and we can have a VP role or an area role as a director but then that's it there's no further you know growth and hospitality beyond that that was one of the main drivers for me but when you to get to your question now when you're looking at that scalability it was actually not me it was a lot of people in my network asset managers owners reps you know friends in in that segment sea level that have pointed out why on earth do you only have one location you know you know what you're doing and there is a need for alignment of of certain brands to to have a fantastic spa because at the end of the day we all we don't have to to hide behind the fact that the focus lies on rooms and F&B within the in the property and the spa should be predominantly not a revenue driver it should be a quality driver and this enhancement for sense of well-being fosters guest engagement and guest engagement fosters revenue on all levels right and that is something that is proven by gallop by JD powers by many of the of the big companies out there it's a measurable KPI and that's why we always tell the the hotels look at who's operating a spa you know it is having an intangible impact on your revenues that you cannot imagine you know people are coming back when the sense of well-being is high one of the five key drivers of guest engagement actually so it's very important so for me that moment when I thought okay you know what let's let's give this a try let's scale it was first within the the group of our holdings obviously you know it was an easy you know entry for me to do that so we we opened up another two hotels with with our holdings which is that that company which is owned by Sheikh Rashid and from there we just we just grew and we had the foot on the gas you know and one day I woke up and I was like oh what happened you know now we're already on outlet number six and then yeah you know it was it was pretty pretty fast and then after Covid it was not us anymore who had to look for new locations it was really just people calling us and asking us can you help can you help us you know increasing the the sense of well-being throughout the property so it was moving from that that brand Raya Wellness towards a consultancy approach as well so we're looking at you know helping the hotels to to get it right yes you know I've stayed in wellness hotels where I woke up and I look at the ceiling everything's blinking you know yeah and the AC flow is completely off and you know the fire fighting system is blinking brighter than my phone screen yeah you know this has got nothing to do with wellness it doesn't but still it is a wellness hotel that I'm staying in yes so there was a lot of um you know red flags for me and a lot of need to tighten the screws and it's it's just something that I don't see as work also yeah I think every entrepreneur who is successful would say the same yeah and every business that I've seen successful is where I see an owner being involved you know I never went into a restaurant where it's you know done by an entrepreneur and I I see people just doing whatever he's telling them he needs to be present present yeah this is the ethos this is the passion this is the ambition and wherever this is happening it's it's a success formula so that was a bonus for me to have that as a wind in the sail yeah yeah

[Angela Thomas]

that's a very good thing Christian because also I sense so much hunger in what you're telling and I mean you was talking now I know you wanted to keep it sometimes under you know the roof and not being talking so much about it was already hard to get you here so thank you for being open but you said now you had six you know and you woke up and you had six outlets and you was like who what happened but lately we met on a conference and I had this big misconception that you had 27 27 employees but you have 27 outlets meanwhile yes tell us a little bit more what happened between six outlets that you just mentioned and then yeah 27 yeah we're going 27 we have two more in the

[Christian Kiefer]

pre-opening now okay um however it is very important to to mention what you said that there's not only one brand yes so raya wellness was the first brand that I created and during the lockdown I got a little nervous nervous because obviously I told no I told my by then we had like I think like five six locations yes and I told my um my employees your job is safe nothing's gonna happen when this whole thing started with covid right um and then the first month went down the second month the third month the fourth month the fifth month and I think in the fifth month I already did not sleep anymore because I had a significant amount of people on my payroll I had to pay provisions to the hotels I had only costs you know lots of rent still going on and even though there was a lowered you know force majeure from from certain properties but still we had a lot of costs and the spa sector started to disappear because the workforce just was gone yeah you know I saw people terminating like 90 of their workforce left and right I did not let go of a single therapist

[Angela Thomas]

and that was such a smart thing I know because that's what I did in my spa back in the days as

[Christian Kiefer]

well yeah it was a huge risk yeah it was a huge risk but then during covid what I did was I was bored I lined myself up for for something else um and I created a retreat travel brand to bali which was called wellbeings holistic healing so we had an investor secured who invested into a 12 bedroom villa in bali and I wanted to run retreats all year round to that villa which was branded with wellbeings it was all beautiful it was an amazing setup the numbers looked great it was it was a no-brainer and then you know covid was stretching so much and if you remember your listeners maybe remember bali was hit the worst it was just stretching and stretching and eventually my investor was like chris come on I'm opting out this island is kaput you know we're gonna we're gonna pull out and I was sitting there with this brand deck for wellbeings and all that vision so I was like what am I going to do with this now you know it's all it looks great and I want to do something with it so I was thinking why am I not doing that costa starbucks approach and opening up another brand alongside raya but making it raya on steroids okay making it a a grand you know entry for the five star uber luxury properties and that's what I did so we we had our own you know had our first signing with fairmont shakeside road then we moved to fairmont ajman fairmont fujairah and from there onwards we were focusing with wellbeings on the five star and with raya on the four star boutique so this was the the or these are still the brand differentiators with wellbeings now I have I have 15 locations I believe and with raya it's it's 12 so it's 27

[Angela Thomas]

in total outstanding performance outstanding really results is a lot of work yeah I know but the beautiful thing is actually that you are in dubai you do not have to apologize for working or like to do what you're doing yeah back in the in the german environment in the european environment I always was feeling shady because I loved what I did and people was asking me you're not getting burned out and you're not working too much you need to have a vacation I was like no I actually getting more stressed out by having a vacation because then I have to of everything and I rather stay in the flow you know if you actually be out of the industry you also know how to nurture your body back while you go in also very stressful situations don't you have

[Christian Kiefer]

this no I mean look I always I always tell myself I need to do more for myself yeah I mean as much as I love what I do I know I lose myself in the in the workload and I I just I just work too much and I'm admitting it but I have a goal right everybody should set themselves small goals or big goals because that's what drives me you know I'm having these small you know milestones that I work towards too and then I sometimes I lose myself and I want to get there what the problem is in my job is that I am very reliant on hotels and on their project timelines and promises which are hardly ever kept yes why because of the construction and because of the fact that everything is not going according to plan when is anything ever going according to plan

[Angela Thomas]

I'm saying if you want to make God love a loud out and you must try to plan a day in Dubai

[Christian Kiefer]

exactly and this is why then I'm like okay I let's get that opening out of the way let's do this let's tick this off let's you know and then sometimes I cancel vacations I move things backwards and and then I realize oh it's been six months already yeah and I need to you know slowly plan to to do something um but yeah I know to to go back to what you said as long as you love what you do it doesn't really feel like you're burning yourself out right yeah and that can also be dangerous because sometimes we don't realize it ourselves because we're so in it and we're just so in that hamster wheel of we're liking it we're loving it we love the thrill but it's not good to

[Angela Thomas]

do too much right let's face it I think it is important for for a business owner like you to have actually that detachment moment where you not necessarily stop working but get yourself out of the operation moment and let people do the work and you work on the vision while following your dreams and goals that the milestones that you set yourself well I need to

[Christian Kiefer]

touch base on two points one thing is you need to know what is your battery in life so that's also something that many people don't know okay connect with your inner child right what was it that you know you love to do when you were a kid it sounds stupid to many but this is exactly how it is for me it's nature if as soon as I you know go into nature and I immerse myself and I switch off my phone and I go on nature walks and go biking and go fishing and whatever not I recharge like this it's impossible to to top that in terms of my battery levels or relationships right or or anything what what you see as a battery in your life you need to identify this the other thing that you said is people in order for you to have less workload you need to have the right people under you and you do not have to be you know sad or or shy away from making decisions letting people go exactly do not drag a long wait and surround yourself with people who resonate on your on your frequency and who can execute yeah because if you do not have that or you have that 50 or 60 engagement and and today is like this and today is like that

[Angela Thomas]

you're in for a for a bad ride that is a big point of leverage actually to have the right people and to create a good team create good teams around the project that you have I always justify myself if I wanted to let somebody go and as a emotional too much attachment then that I will not hold this person hostage because it's not about me it's not about them letting them go or them losing the job it's about them getting a new ability of finding another place where they can perform better isn't it so yeah it has it has to be a

[Christian Kiefer]

fast decision yeah there's also a generation thing no offense okay okay but I really see a huge shift in people's attitudes people's loyalty levels people's mindsets and I remember you know back in the days when I came to Dubai so many years ago like what is it 18 years ago or what um you know we loved what we did in terms of brand engagement we were proud to work for St. Regis we were proud to work for for the palace the old town whatever and we we thought 10 times are we are we really going to take that day off and are we really okay I go to work with a headache and you know it's it's just not there anymore it's just we have the feeling that there is a grass is greener on the other side mentality always people come with offer letters left right and center I mean we we still manage to keep people very happy because we do a lot for our employees but I just see that mentality has shifted and that is difficult and we see it not only from us we see it from from everywhere and it's becoming more and more difficult to keep the stuff for longer because they just have this mindset I know a lot of employees as well they will they will sugarcoat this and they will say no we are our stuff is so happy we do so much for

[Angela Thomas]

them I'm not buying it I know a lot of companies who who does that and the reality in our 3d world is just totally different yeah you nailed it on that a question let me ask you a little bit back again to that tangible moment where you start creating a spot after spot and implementation in the hotels father and father now you have a first step of working with some regions Fairmont for example was it a very hard opportunity or a very hard work basically to make your client aware of the problem that he has because sometimes it is so hard to convince somebody to get your service implemented by them sugarcoating everything thinking they don't even have a problem and they don't see the chances in a collaboration that you bring in and the benefits that that your work has explain me a little bit more about how did you do to convince the people that it was just a self-running system that they already know aha this is actually the benefit we get with him we have a problem we commit the problem or a challenge let's say and that's my

[Christian Kiefer]

question is our solution you're talking about the hotels and owners right not about the clients because that is equally applicable to our clients yes yeah I know so so I think we have brand differentiators which other you know wellness and spa operators do not have and we have pioneered those and we are the benchmark in the region for those for those parameters we have started to implement to work with healers we have started to run retreats we were the first ones in the region who were running retreats now everybody's running retreats and I'm getting beaten down on why my numbers are not good anymore but anyways so we have looked at what differentiates a normal spa operator from a from us so we have you know enhanced retail boutiques where we really have home care solutions wellness solutions to follow up with with your treatment that you have received at home and we do not see the guest as a big dollar sign that is lying on the bed because our our ethos and our brand stands for genuine care and that is why the selection of therapists is also very very thorough for us because we just don't need just regular therapists we need somebody who really genuinely cares and that is in the in the ethos in the in the you know brand values it's it's anchored in that yeah and you know it goes from the consultation over you know the follow-up if you come to us for first time the next day the reception will call you and we'll ask you know how was how was your treatment yesterday did you do the follow-up did you drink enough water how do you feel today and they're like oh i didn't expect that that makes such a big difference yeah and it's it's small things like that that really make the the big difference we have obviously implemented sound healing in all our treatments you know we have cryotherapy we we're doing we were the first ones who did ivy all across our our branches so the the you know ivy therapy yes um we have places where we do um rife technology which many of your viewers will not know about but that's like really in-depth frequency healing yes where the signal of 528 hertz or any other frequency is amplified by a hundred times fold you can say and we can really

[Angela Thomas]

really heal a lot of modalities with them a lot of real estates are also actually implementing this i know there is one big wellness project in dubai where they even put frequency on the water pipe for the water to have better quality it's such a good thing look at the end of the day all of these

[Christian Kiefer]

ancient you know healing modalities were made to be forgotten and there's a reason for it i mean i cannot talk too much about it made to be forgotten i mean the we're talking about big pharma and you know the whole commercial drive behind it so so they don't want us to do it right it's pretty evident that longevity and biohacking you are right in my podcast to talk about that i'm sorry to say because i have the same handwriting for me it's it's crystal clear and it's evident to anyone who digs a little bit further into the topic that this is exactly how it is it's the biggest threat to big pharma because it's so powerful it's so powerful i mean we can shatter cancer cells with 1111 hertz clinically proven to to to do it there's a lot of amazing things that you can do with with sound healing and the sulfageo frequency scale is so powerful you know when you're looking at at anything it's it's all frequency and vibration it is i mean tesla said it so it must be right but but it is i mean if you're looking at old church windows you look at the patterns you look at at you know old mantras and and paintings in in in tibet you know everything is sound yes we are frequency beings and if you tap into the right frequency you can you can heal a lot

[Angela Thomas]

this is my saying that's why it's becoming so happy you bring this up really you know and and

[Christian Kiefer]

we obviously enhance this with crystals and with with different modalities um but yeah i mean this is just one element that we're touching here there's so much more which can be done with with ancient healing modalities combined with modern technologies because we can just make it more powerful than what it already was because a singing bowl certainly is not as powerful as a

[Angela Thomas]

rife machine yes right so yeah it's it's amazing stuff and take all of these advantages that we have now technology into the systems and bring even a hundred percent better results and food has

[Christian Kiefer]

vibration yes right so i always say you know if the less ingredients you have in the food the better if a food has a marketing agency behind it then something is wrong yes so if i have to market my food there are too many ingredients there's a commercial drive behind it so something is off right if it takes you 21 days to raise a chicken nowadays it doesn't sound right it doesn't sound right so you have to just be very cautious of these these things yes but the more you you learn to connect with with with these educational elements you will not stop it's like going down the rabbit hole but it's like leveled so you go down one ladder you have a level you go down the next ladder you have a level but you cannot get back up up if you want uh it's out of the matrix then that knowledge is there to to stay uh and yeah it's it's amazing tell me a little bit about

[Angela Thomas]

that letter down in this rabbit hole because i know it has something also to do with scalability i know it also has something to do with scalability so i wanted to know yeah now you have well-being customer journey how to treat them yeah a little of these enhanced technologies that you implement out of asian techniques and all of this knowledge that means to be forgotten but tell me something if i'm going now to a retreat or to a hotel and i'm looking of how is the spa and the spa is lacking i i mean health good maybe okay and i'll find a little bit but then a lot of people are going to leave their home base in a retreat in a spa in a hotel and you cannot find any kind of medical orientated beauty treatments skin enhancements and all of these things why is that so i need to just let that sink in so you mean you you

[Christian Kiefer]

you cannot find these treatment modalities in a normal spa setting in the normal spa

[Angela Thomas]

there is rarely something that is going on with machines there's only maybe other medical treatments that you have but that you wanted to have because sometimes you have a little downtime coming with the treatment that you wanted to have it's good to have that in the environment of a hotel ergo in the spa ergo with this shelter so you look young and fresh when you're coming back but this is never it's always detached from from this medical aspect why is that so it's it's this

[Christian Kiefer]

is exactly what what we're fighting we're not fighting what we're arguing with the government about right because there is that necessity for to drive wellness forward however there's a lot of roadblocks on the legal side and it's all down to the licensing there's a lot of gray zones there's a lot of don'ts and very few do's um and it's it's all structured however it's very very clearly it's like a compartment almost it's very compartmentalized and it's it's it's not something where we say we would love to have everything under one roof you know because it's not possible you know you cannot have a medical approach mixed with a holistic spa approach because it's two different licenses right so it's very difficult to get that over the line it can be done with a lot of wasta and a lot of uh you know a lot of time but you don't have that you know that luxury of of having to wait for a year of approvals and and you know resubmissions and and building completion certificates that have to be amended and all of this stuff it's very difficult just to to have that clinic element there's so many changes that have to be made and we've just been going through that exercise it's it's horrendous you know to do that and it's it's possible but it's very lengthy process and very very time consuming and there's a lot of pitfalls so that's why you will not find you know medical treatments in a normal spa and wellness setting we would love to do it but as soon as we do anything invasive there's a the clipboard will come out with a little fine yeah so however um the the government is doing a fantastic job for everybody to be able to you know set foot and for everybody to open up trade license with ease however in our industry it's complicated and there's a lot of gray zones and these gray zones need to be uh you know need to be marked down and i hope that it's going to be easier in the future and i've seen already some in some cases that they're easing up they're easing up i mean like i remember that we had this gentleman at the conference from the banya in in blue waters they already have somehow managed to get a license where they can facilitate a community type of of gathering within a within a sauna type of setting you know which is fantastic that never existed before you know i was very pleased to hear that so they can go with a group into the into the sauna environment male and female it's moving forward it's not moving as fast as as fast

[Angela Thomas]

as you want to have hope for it yeah okay yeah very good so let our community please to know what are your five key points what you would give somebody as an advice to scale in generally doesn't matter what what are the five points for you for somebody to scale i think you need to be

[Christian Kiefer]

unique and better than everybody else and what you do and if you tell yourself that and if you are convinced that you've ticked every box to say my concept is unique and i'm better than you and i'm better than you okay go ahead then secondly have your funding right and your financial capacity overseen in a way that you are not leaning yourself too far out of the window because if you scale you better have the backup you know because again like we just discussed there can be pitfalls with licensing there can be issues that you are you know we saw it all yeah who was

[Angela Thomas]

able to have their your employees five five months on yeah that would that would be very extreme

[Christian Kiefer]

yeah but still it can happen yeah you never know yeah but you should you should definitely be ready to have a pillow a contingency a financial contingency that backs you up partner with people who know what they're doing and do not have the ego to say oh i can do this all myself you know when i say partner i don't mean put them on your license or whatever not but get advice and do not shy away from from you know getting support i had mentors everybody has mentors i'm still in touch with these people like trend mundi for example it's an amazing gentleman that i met over steiner leisure you know who i always picked his brain he still picks my brain nowadays you know so it's beautiful to have that connection to a to a mentor and i think it's it's very important to keep your ego at the door you know when it comes to scalability exactly and for feasibility studies you need to know the market you need to know what you're up against you need to know your competitors you need to you know find a way to maneuver how i i see dubai as a chess board i literally tell this story many times you know you need to know how to move your figurines around and you need to know how your competitors are moving and you need to know what is their next move or what could be their next move on the chessboard so you're not setting yourself up for failure there right and i think last but not least i think i touched base on that already take time for yourself and do not burn yourself out because especially when you start to scale the business you will work harder and more than you've ever worked in your entire life because this is your make or break and when you have that guerrilla approach of baba baba greed is a very dangerous place from where to view the world so if you have opportunities on the table do not just like a machine gun go for the next best and make strategic business decisions and pace yourself because your attention span will be cut in half every time you do something new yes and you will be finding yourself at at a you know scenario where you will be saying to yourself damn a bit of more than i can chew yeah and now i have a problem because i wanted this location or i wanted to scale here and i wanted to do this and what but i just i how i don't have the resources now i need to do this now i need to do that and i signed already and i knew i then you start becoming reactive yes and you're not you will do it you will get it done yeah but you will not do it 100 and then your reputation is on the line yes you will maybe even club some losses so yeah pace yourself make the right business decisions and and you know scale with a with a good eye for

[Angela Thomas]

what you're doing christian you talked about mentors and you have one you said you were still in contact i have a few but you know very beautiful it's so important because a lot of people they think i'm i can do it by myself i i'm always saying you cannot see your own shadow by yourself that's literally not possible and especially in a situation where you scale like you scale yeah it is also important to talk to the right people because yeah i mean no offense to anybody but they need to walk be able to walk a mile in your shoes in order to understand what you actually have a question of sometimes i find myself if i don't have anybody to talk anymore i am totally in the wrong room and that's a point where i'm getting out and try to be creative with who i can talk how do you do this do you yeah you reflect yourself like that or does your mentors reflect yourself or do you have also some mentors who out mentored you or you out mentor them

[Christian Kiefer]

so how i would i would not name them but yes definitely that was the case of course yeah of course i mean like there is if it's like the olympics right yes you learn from the best but maybe you're gonna be better than them one day exactly and and they would appreciate that probably right hopefully yeah but i think you know no olympic winner of a gold medal

[Angela Thomas]

has done it themselves themselves nobody yeah yeah you know take the misconception of people

[Christian Kiefer]

are fine don't you think absolutely yeah but there again it's the ego right and that that differentiates a successful entrepreneur from from an entrepreneur who might not make it as far because many entrepreneurs that i have met they have big egos and they think they know it all yes but that's not the case and you need to get support and you need to look left and you need to look right in my industry the beauty of it was that our industry was very small remember that when when you know like it looked like 10-15 years ago the wellness industry was very small yeah now it's it's a huge multi-billion 60 billion dollar industry and that does not include wellness real estate and all the others that we're just talking about the the beauty sector and the spa sector on the floor but i think everybody needs a good mentors and also even if it's mentors that you're not having direct access to for me for example people like jordan peterson who i admire you know or others you know that i follow you know and i i sometimes attended their their appearances you know and i went to certain forums just just give yourself that leverage by by growing you know and adapting to certain management styles and mindsets that these leaders portray nothing wrong with it yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah christian i have another

[Angela Thomas]

question that i ask actually every skill unit that i have on the podcast we're talking about the professional life which goes a lot into your private life yeah coming to the private life it is crucially important out of my point of view who you have as a partner with you in this journey to actually be able to scale because nobody in my world can win a two-side fight and a battle on this field it always makes either the scalability of your profession to have a shortcome or to make the relationship to have a shortcome yeah so how do you do this to take somebody alongside with you i don't even know much about your private life but maybe nobody does

[Christian Kiefer]

and i love it i mean i i i you know pride myself with the fact that i i mean before the podcast started we spoke about instagram right now i have like 300 followers on instagram and i i just keep my private life very very you know off the radar no problem but how do you manage i mean i'm to

[Angela Thomas]

take them along with your journey of growth because it's not only about you know getting the time that you are you don't have for a person but it's also the mindset that you are developing as a scaler as a skill you know yeah to be an entrepreneur on this scale that you are it's the most spiritual thing that you could be you always have to have trust in every aspect of life but how do you take this person in the private life along with your journey yeah i think

[Christian Kiefer]

it it requires you know somebody very strong obviously and i always take that example from the u.s presidents right look at their first ladies nobody would have made it this far if they would not have had a strong partner by by their side it's the yin and yang it's the support system and it's again like what i said earlier that battery you need to know what your batteries are if your relationship is not a battery and is draining you then you better get out of it right so exactly you you carry your partner the way they carry you you know and sometimes she needs support sometimes i need support and this is how how how it is you know and you know in this case you know it's both very high corporate rules that we are holding so it's it's a give and take you know and there is not a lot of time however that time you may have to make it quality and you have to just make time for for yourselves right the aspect of of learning

[Angela Thomas]

yeah you learn a lot in your professional life and this partner that you have on every skill and it has on the side they are have to do the same journey of learning how do you manage to actually share your learnings with this person are you going together on yeah

[Christian Kiefer]

you know sometimes silence is gold you know you you also know that sometimes you are exhausted you are burnt you know sometimes you just you just switch on the tv or you just make a nice meal and then you know you get on the couch and you just zip it because maybe you just talk the whole day and you know talking about the happy marriage isn't it your missus might have been in the boardroom for god knows how long in the day and and you know you just know that is your downtime and then i think the talk about work is is very limited is it and i think that's good okay you know and i think also there is a lot of shared successes um and you know you just know when there's a it's a shite day you you know it's a shite day you can tell it by your demeanor and you you just say like how is it how was your day and and why are you in that hole you know and then you might hear a story but then that story might also be like and you already so it's it's it's again you just know your partner you just know when to talk about certain things and when not okay i think that would be the right answer and i'm sure everybody out there

[Angela Thomas]

would resonate with that yes all right yeah thank you for having this insight and tell me let me know what book did you read the last time i often go when i'm in a new country in libraries to see what is in the brain of the people in this country just to get a kind of overview and that's why i'm asking are you reading books or having maybe audio books do you have time for this and if so

[Christian Kiefer]

what is the last book that you know the problem is i love to read in the evening yeah but then do you fall asleep yeah it's it's it's so i'm i have this this philosophy that i don't look at my phone the last like three hours of the day yes which people hate about me because you know that's when people get off from work many times and then you know they're like why are you not replying and but most of my friends obviously they know this pattern it's just i just vanish and then you know i i just have this digital detox and obviously i read my my books but then i fall tend to fall asleep a lot no i love to read self self growth books um you know it's obviously steven alcove is one of my my my favorites uh favorite ones yeah um and i think the last the last one that i that i read what was that i think it was you know it was actually was the second part from the monk who sold his ferrari oh yes there's two books yeah i have not read the second one but it's a good advice and there's also the before that there was one there's it's called the new earth from eckhart tolle that's also very good that is that it's basically the the the second part of the power of now and you know the power and we're talking about literature the power of now was a book that i've given as gifts i think like a hundred times uh-huh okay so so i think that that book for me has literally changed my life i'm not joking so i remember i read it the first time like some 20 years ago when i was still on cruise ships yes but it is something that is just you find the same principle everywhere you know it's the same principle of of many many books or many religions even you know but that being in the now being present is just

[Angela Thomas]

so important it is um and literally i learned this here in dubai to be in the now because you

[Christian Kiefer]

know yeah it's so difficult yeah because it is so difficult right too many impressions yes and then

[Angela Thomas]

i can center myself and say i'm in the now if i'm not in the now i'm gonna spoil the moment after and they press into a moment and then especially when it comes to meetings you're running a little late and then you wanted to think three steps ahead to make everybody being aligned but then i just center myself and say i'm in the now yeah that's what you asked me earlier right before we

[Christian Kiefer]

did the podcast about the distractions and all of this so this is another thing right i eliminate decisions from my life you know i try to keep it very very free of anything that doesn't need to be there that's why i am i'm not good friends with my phone for example because my phone is there for efficiency that's all you know i don't have any apps on my phone very good it shouldn't be there yeah i i'm not a social media person at all like you just gave me the elbow when my linkedin account looks so terrible um and i agree with it and i i know i'm terrible with it but i i just try to live a life that is really free of distractions because i know it doesn't make me happy and it removes me from being present you know i rather just sit on in my apartment on the palm and look out of the window and look at the the water or look at the dubai eye and you know i'm just i just i'm going down in the park every morning you know to go for a walk yes um very early when it's not busy and beautiful sun sunrises you have there yeah yeah it's just it's just i could never live in the city no offense like closer to business bay downtown i need to have the water bodies around me because i just i just need it for the grounding right um but if i can give one advice to to everyone is just try to limit the screen time and if you have kids my god even more

[Angela Thomas]

so yes and try to even get them away as long as you as much as you can yeah because obviously

[Christian Kiefer]

they don't want to be the oddball out in school when they can't talk about certain topics right and you're the bad parent but they will forget you put the tablet away after 10 minutes they will not think about it anymore but if they are already in that in that mindset of it is the gratification and uh you know uh if you give give the tablet or give the phone i find sometimes

[Angela Thomas]

they're in breakfast rooms in hotels they don't talk to each other anymore yeah i'm just surprised like they have been parked in front of this electrical station and it's sometimes the whole

[Christian Kiefer]

family the other day i was in a hotel for lunch and i made a joke to my to my operations director and i said look at this table it's like two kids and a grandmother and one one and everybody including the granny yeah they were all on their devices for a long time yeah nobody said a word and i feel again you know it's a little bit of a conspiracy but it's all also done by design right the more distraction there is the less we ask questions the more we are you know we get detached

[Angela Thomas]

having our head down family is getting detached from each other and that's the first point where you can enter in the strongest part of the society is the family use technology whenever

[Christian Kiefer]

you need it right if you do not need it do not pick up your phone and yeah and try to get entertained

[Angela Thomas]

thank you christian for for your good moments here and for your sharings tell me where you want the audience to look first if they would like to get in contact with you or visit one of the one of the wonderful spas that you you set up so what is your recommendation follow me on my non-existent

[Christian Kiefer]

instagram account okay we're gonna put this in the show notes no problem yeah yeah so that is one way and obviously we have we have our our socials for the businesses as well right um and then i think you can just share this as well with your with your listeners that is always the easiest way to

[Angela Thomas]

to get in touch with us okay right good and what spa would you recommend for them to visit i cannot

[Christian Kiefer]

give you an answer to that because i'm getting so hard because i'm getting asked the same question every time is it and it's like literally it feels to me like you're asking me about if if i would have several children i only have one beautiful daughter but if i um if i would have who would i love more you know it's the same thing would you want to put so i think i think our branches all have individual characteristics and they're all beautiful um i think it's it's just depends and that's the amazing thing about the network of branches because dubai let's face it it's it's it's quite a like not lazy environment but people love to you know not having to drive a lot and you know parking their car close to wherever they go so that's why we have one location in every neighborhood and also we are very affordable people always think that oh my god it's so expensive and i'm not gonna i'm gonna go with my just life massage for my 200 times but it's not like that you know there's something in the branch for everyone for every you know income stream and there's it's almost like a flexible pricing like a dynamic pricing that we have yeah so it's it's it's a lot of branches to choose from and we're just right next door so try it beautiful we're

[Angela Thomas]

gonna put it in the show notes and thank you christian for that stories that stick and the scale yeah and we connect our community with yours so your instagram is not anymore on the floor yes finally okay if you like this podcast episode you just give us a referral share with your friends review we would love to so this podcast reach out to more skillness to more people who would like to scale because we have here owners and skilliness that already went the way know the way and show the way